Saint Caligula??!

[Dolan]

I wonder what's to happen to the Jewish Temple ITTL. Will it burned to the ground? Or will Emperor Quirinus mandate that it be granted to the Christians?

More likely given to Christians and they would use that as their headquarter.

Anyway, if St Paul is dead, maybe it would be another Roman Citizen of high enough status to be made Procurator, maybe St Timothy.

Also just read about your Clement of Rome, alluded in Paul's letters. While his writings aren't regarded as New Testament Canon IOTL, they would be definitely put in canon, at the very least here.

 

[Geon]

The Martyrdom of St. Paul​

The Acts of the Apostles ends with Paul’s arrival in Rome to appeal his case before Caesar (Quirinius). The Epistle of Linus gives us a brief outline of what happened while Paul was in Rome. Paul would have his trial before Quirinius. The trial was brief and to the point, Quirinius ruled Paul was totally innocent of the crimes he was charged with and that this was merely a “Jewish matter.”

Paul would spend the next year in Rome with Linus and the Church and would spend several hours conversing with the Emperor as well as witnessing to the faith in the Roman Forum, and with the local Jewish community. He would then take the land roads back to Palestine and to Jerusalem. According to Luke in his Acts of Paul, the Apostle would spend a year in his return to Antioch and later Jerusalem visiting many of the churches he established during his previous missionary visits.

His return to Jerusalem was marked by great tension. Humiliated by Paul’s exoneration by the Emperor himself some of the Pharisees entered an unholy alliance with the more radical of the Zealot party, namely the Sicarii. These “dagger men” were notorious for dealing rather peremptorily with suspected Roman sympathizers among the Jewish people. Paul was by birth a Roman citizen. That and his recent acquittal and time spent with the Emperor in Rome would make him a potential target to these assassins.

From what is known of the mind of the Pharisees at this time they were becoming more and more hostile to the Christian sect, which many of them no longer even considered a “Jewish sect.” Rather, they saw it as a clear danger to the Jewish religion as it gained more and more converts, even from among the Jewish leadership.

According to Josephus, a small cliché of Pharisees contacted the Sicarii leadership and offered them a place on the Sanhedrin if they would “dispose of this troublesome Paul.” For the Sicarii, the chance to have a representative on the Sanhedrin and remove a potential Roman collaborator was too tempting.

So, according to Josephus, as Paul was making his way from Antioch to Jerusalem on March 5, 64 A.D. a group of men stopped him and asked him where he was going. Paul answered, “I go to Jerusalem.” Whereupon, according to Josephus, “They drew knives and fell upon Paul and his companions. They proceeded to stab Paul several times until he died, and the others in his party they left for dead.”

Luke was one of Paul’s traveling companions. He apparently survived the attack and later recounted in his Acts of Paul that Paul “was struck down by evil men on the way to Rome.” The Apostles in Jerusalem hearing what had happened according to Luke had “righteous men” retrieve Paul’s body and bury it secretly, “for fear of the Jews.”

Word of this murder spread throughout the province of Palestine. The leaders of the cabal that ordered Paul’s death were pleased but many among the Pharisees were horrified fearing, rightly, that this would lead to a reprisal by Rome.

Their fears were well justified. While it is not known how word got back to Quirinius, the early church father Justin Martyr states that “the Apostle Peter despite his old age personally journeyed to Rome to speak to the Emperor himself about this barbarity.” Whether Peter would have gone to Rome, when it might have been simply easier to send word through the governor of the province is open to debate.

However, the fact remains that Quirinius is said to have vowed “vengeance in the Apostle’s name.” when he heard of Paul’s martyrdom.

 

[Cocytus737]

Those Pharisees are FUBAR now.

 

[Dolan]

that “the Apostle Peter despite his old age personally journeyed to Rome to speak to the Emperor himself about this barbarity.”

Oh whelp, instead of becoming Bishop of Rome, I could see the Emprah gave The Temple and basically all Jerusalem to Peter for Church use.

And thus, this alternate Papacy, if exist, would be centered on Jerusalem.

 

[Tyg]

Oh whelp, instead of becoming Bishop of Rome, I could see the Emprah gave The Temple and basically all Jerusalem to Peter for Church use.

And thus, this alternate Papacy, if exist, would be centered on Jerusalem.

I really like this idea! The Bishop of Jerusalem gets legitimacy from apostolic descent from Jesus' authority and imperial grant. The Emperor could easily also grant Peter and successors the title of Pontifex Maximus, if he's feeling generous.

Jerusalem's distance from Rome means that it develops somewhat independently of Roman politics, which has pluses and minuses for the Emperor. On the plus side, the Bishop of Jerusalem won't be able to interfere with the Emperor's day-to-day decisions, or provide a rallying point for enemies in court politics. On the other hand, the Emperor won't be able to so easily control the Bishop-of-Bishops, and thus will have less influence over theological matters, and potentially Church organization. Of course, that's more likely to be an issue for another emperor in the future, and not be a particularly pressing concern.

 

[vandevere]

I really like this idea! The Bishop of Jerusalem gets legitimacy from apostolic descent from Jesus' authority and imperial grant. The Emperor could easily also grant Peter and successors the title of Pontifex Maximus, if he's feeling generous.

Jerusalem's distance from Rome means that it develops somewhat independently of Roman politics, which has pluses and minuses for the Emperor. On the plus side, the Bishop of Jerusalem won't be able to interfere with the Emperor's day-to-day decisions, or provide a rallying point for enemies in court politics. On the other hand, the Emperor won't be able to so easily control the Bishop-of-Bishops, and thus will have less influence over theological matters, and potentially Church organization. Of course, that's more likely to be an issue for another emperor in the future, and not be a particularly pressing concern.

Big question is, Would this prevent, or ameliorate the otl Jewish Revolt of the late 60s to early 70s AD? Maybe no Masada?

 

[Dolan]

Big question is, Would this prevent, or ameliorate the otl Jewish Revolt of the late 60s to early 70s AD? Maybe no Masada?

it could actually make things far worse though.
It is something to have a foreign occupation of your land.
It is another thing entirely to have your holy place taken and ruled by "Heretics".

 

[vandevere]

it could actually make things far worse though.
It is something to have a foreign occupation of your land.
It is another thing entirely to have your holy place taken and ruled by "Heretics".

Ah, well...

I had hopes things might be better there...

 

[Tyg]

Big question is, Would this prevent, or ameliorate the otl Jewish Revolt of the late 60s to early 70s AD? Maybe no Masada?

It'll probably change the nature of unrest and resistance to Roman occupation, but I doubt it'd settle it. Potentially, the establishment of Christian leadership in Jerusalem could lead to a Christianity more accommodating to Jews, and maybe with a bit more of a Jewish flavor, but that's not going to mollify zealots or those with more political concerns.

What could happen though is the development of a stronger Roman loyalist class among Christians, Greeks, etc in the province. That might make it impossible for a revolt to take control of Jerusalem or other cities, or it could mean that any future revolt is more like a provincial civil war.

 

[jocay]

I could forsee a future Bishop in Jerusalem forging a document (ala Donation of Pepin) granting a degree of autonomy for Jerusalem and Judea by extension.

 

[Historymaster]

The Donation of Pepin is not a forgery that is the Donation of Constantin.

 

[Geon]

The Later Years and Martyrdom of Peter​

Whether the Apostle Peter came to Rome seeking justice for his friend, the Apostle Paul, or as some historians have speculated fled to Rome to avoid sharing Paul’s fate as the situation in Jerusalem became more and more hostile to Christians, the fact remains Peter is known to have been in Rome for 5 years prior to his death.

Linus, in his second epistle, describes the welcome Peter received on his arrival in Rome. “Even the Emperor came to where Peter was staying to do him honor.” Although some historians have recently tried to cast doubt on this passage most would say this would not have been out of keeping with the Emperor Quirinius’ character.

Peter would remain in Rome for the next five years. During this time Linus is said to have desired Peter take over the bishopric from him. But Peter refused. In his second epistle Linus writes, “But Peter refused to take on the title of Bishop of Rome saying it was Linus whom the Lord had set aside for this task.” Instead, according to Linus, Peter spent much time speaking with the Jews in Rome as well as preaching in Rome and the surrounding communities. Linus also wrote of Peter’s various conversations with Quirinius.

Again, according to Linus, “many came to a knowledge of the faith during this time.” But apparently Peter’s presence angered many who were still attached to the pagan religions and saw Peter as the primary reason for the decline of their religion and feared the anger of the gods on Rome if something was not done.

At this point, we enter more the realm of conjecture then hard historical fact. Linus records that many of the followers of the pagan Roman gods sought Peter killed and paid a group of “unscrupulous fellows” to do the deed. On the other hand, Suetonius writes that Peter was murdered by bandits who “knew nothing of these religious matters.”

Whether it was by a pagan conspiracy or by bandits what is known is that Peter went missing and “was not seen at the Eucharist on the Lord’s Day.” (April 6, 69 A.D.) According to Linus, “A great search was conducted for him and even the royal guard was employed to find him.”

Peter’s body would be found two miles outside of Rome at what is now called St. Peter by the Tiber. According to Linus the body of the Apostle was found hanging by a noose from the branch of one of the trees by the river. His hands were tied behind his back and thus Linus said the prophecy was fulfilled that Jesus Himself declared in John 21:18-19.

When Peter’s body was brought back into the city “there was loud mourning by all the Church,” declared Linus. The Emperor Quirinius is said to have had all the priests of the pagan temples brought before him and before the body of the Apostle demanding that they account for where they were that night and threatening to “tear their temples down about their heads if they did not disclose the truth to him.”

The priests according to various writers declared to a man that they had nothing to do with Peter’s death. All of them declared that if the perpetrator of this deed were known to them, they would immediately turn him over to the Emperor.

While several names have been mentioned as possible suspects in this ancient murder case there has never been any concrete proof to connect any of these suspects with the murder of Peter.

Peter would be buried in the Church of St. Clement alongside St. Clement and St. Gaius (Caligula) in a burial worthy of any Emperor according to all reliable sources from the period. And Quirinius was now much more suspicious of the pagan priesthood. The death of Peter widened the rift between the Emperor and the pagan religion, so long a major force in Rome’s politics.

 

[thekingsguard]

This TL is risen, in the literal sense.

 

[Anarch King of Dipsodes]

He went to one of the Roman centurions who guarded the Emperor...

1) "Roman centurion" is redundant, like "Australian kangaroo".

2) The emperor was protected by the Praetorian Guard. The centuries of the Guard were commanded by centurions. The servant would therefore address a "Praetorian centurion" or "centurion of the Praetorian Guard".

3) "Centurion" was a fairly low rank; the decision to bring Clement into the Emperor's presence would be made by one of the three Praetorian Tribunes or even the Praetorian Prefect (commander of the Guard).

Of course the medieval chronicler may not be aware of all this, but I think he would be aware that a centurion was not the commander.

Caligula, Tiberius, and the Senate
The day after Caligula said this he summoned three of the senators to appear before him in the palace at noon. When the senators came in they found Caligula examining several scrolls and ledgers, and Tiberius was seated beside him. Caligula looked up and said, “I have learned that there are those in the senate who are using the money in the public treasury for their own purposes.”

Senators (as such) did not have access to public funds. That would be the scope of the quaestors, the officials in charge of the treasury. However, quaestors automatically became senators, and a medieval chronicler might not know the difference.

 

[jocay]

It's probably too early to ban paganism throughout the Empire but Emperor Quirinus could probably get away with permanently banning it within either Rome or the Italian peninsula.

 

[Blorg]

bad day ):
New saint Caligula

 

[Geon]

I'm getting into a bit of deep water here with regard to an ignorance of Roman tactics during this period so pardon me if I go for the "big picture" as it were. Note, for some weird reason the server did not like my end note. So, that is why the separate text at the end.
------------------------------------------------------------------

The First Jewish War: 64-65 A.D.​

The Emperor sent the Roman legions to the province of Palestine with specific orders to crush the Jewish resistance there and bring to Rome in chains the “murderers of Saint Paul."

Although most of the Roman army was at this point either pagan or non-religious it now had a growing core of believers both among the regular soldiers and the officers. These Christians were determined that the slayers of the Apostle to the Gentiles should be brought to justice. For the rest, it was an opportunity to finally end the terrorism wrought by the Sicarii and the other groups in Palestine once and for all.

From the side of the Jewish leadership in Jerusalem this was nothing short of an unmitigated disaster. Yes, many in the Sanhedrin had wanted that troublemaker Paul dead, but in such a way that it would not arouse the anger of Rome. Now the Jewish leadership was facing a punitive expedition by the Romans that might very well bring Jerusalem crashing down around the Sanhedrin’s heads.

According to Josephus the lights in the council chambers of the Sanhedrin burned long into the night for three consecutive nights as the council met to decide what to do. Finally, in sheer desperation the Sanhedrin did the unthinkable. By a majority vote they decided to seek help from the Christians in Jerusalem and ask them to petition the Romans not to sack the city.

The Christian leadership, led now by James, the brother of Jesus, and John the Apostle, heard the delegation that was sent to them from the Jewish council. Then, according to Josephus “they entered into a time of prayer with the church in Jerusalem.”

While these debates were going on the Romans had landed at Antioch and their two legions were marching southward. Through informers the Romans learned the towns which were sympathetic to the Sicarii and systematically began to put them to the torch and carried the citizens away in chains as slaves. Only those who could show they were Christians were allowed to go free. Known Sicarii sympathizers were crucified and left along the roads as a warning.

The Sicarii fought back, not only against the Romans but against their fellow Jews. Bloody skirmishes were fought as the Romans made their way southward. The Sicarii used guerilla tactics, which the Romans were not used to dealing with, attacking at night, poisoning wells, ambushing patrols. And also, destroying any Jewish community that openly welcomed the Romans.

But the Romans quickly showed they could be just as brutal, burning to the ground any village or town that harbored Sicarii along the way.

Finally, as the legions approached Jerusalem the Sanhedrin and the leaders of the Church in Jerusalem came out to plead with the general of the legions, Vespasian, to show mercy. Vespasian had orders to make certain the murder of Paul “was avenged tenfold” according to Eusebius. While not a Christian himself, Vespasian was willing to hear the petitions of the Jewish leadership and Christian church in Jerusalem.

After hearing the Jews and Christians out Vespasian stated he would forbear on the destruction of Jerusalem if the Jews would surrender all of those on the council who were Sicarii or had sympathies with them. And the Jews must agree in writing no less to allow the Christians in Jerusalem to live “quiet and peaceable lives.” The Jewish leadership were loath to turn over any fellow Jew to the tender mercies of Rome, but given the choice was that or the destruction of Jerusalem and their beloved temple, they agreed to both terms.

Several leaders of the Sicarii based in Jerusalem, as well as those known to be sympathetic to their cause were brought out of Jerusalem in chains and would be returned to Rome for trial, and in some cases, bloody executions. In addition, the Jewish leadership signed the “Peace of Jerusalem,” which stated that henceforth the Jewish leadership would neither directly nor indirectly “wage war or cause harm to befall any of those of the Christian faith."

Vespasian was pleased with the Peace but made it clear a legion would remain in Jerusalem for the next five years to ensure the Peace was being observed. If not…Vespasian made clear there would be consequences.

-----------------------------​

The earliest known copy of the Peace of Jerusalem was discovered in 1972 in the ruins of the synagogue of Capernaum. The document was supposed to have been copied and disseminated throughout Palestine and this particular copy dates from the year 65 A.D.

 

[GoukaRyuu]

Honestly, the most interesting thing I see here is that Jesus having siblings is a known and accepted thing.

 

[Geon]

Honestly, the most interesting thing I see here is that Jesus having siblings is a known and accepted thing.

As far as I can tell it was "known and accepted" as far back as the Apostolic era. The fact seems to have become obscured later in church history.

 

[FriendlyGhost]

[off-topic]

As far as I can tell it was "known and accepted" as far back as the Apostolic era. The fact seems to have become obscured later in church history.

It's to do with the veneration of Mary. For whatever reason, at some point the church began to focus not just on her being honoured as the mother of God's Son, but came up with the idea that she remained perpetually virgin. This was in about the 4th or 5th century, iirc.
Hence, any reference to brothers or sisters (referred to in the gospels of both Mark (considered to be the earliest gospel) and Matthew, amongst other places) could not, in this theological view, be literal but only metaphorical - in the sense that all humankind are God's children, etc - or as other relatives, because the words brother and sister were sometimes used in scripture for other relatives than blood siblings. Mary as Perpetual Virgin (or Ever-Virgin) is still accepted doctrine of the majority of churches, including the Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Anglican and some protestant/reformed churches, but other protestant/reformed churches reject the doctrine.
[/off-topic]
Sorry - that's not really relevant to the thread...

More relevant: I think you got the tactics almost perfect - very similar to as written by Cassius Dio about the Bar Kochba Jewish revolt:

Spoiler: Extract from Cassius Dio's writings

Source: https://www.livius.org/sources/content/cassius-dio/cassius-dio-on-bar-kochba/
[69.12.3] To be sure, they did not dare try conclusions with the Romans in the open field, but they occupied the advantageous positions in the country and strengthened them with mines and walls, in order that they might have places of refuge whenever they should be hard pressed, and might meet together unobserved under ground; and they pierced these subterranean passages from above at intervals to let in air and light.
[69.13.1] At first, the Romans took no account of them. Soon, however, all Judaea had been stirred up, and the Jews everywhere were showing signs of disturbance, were gathering together, and giving evidence of great hostility to the Romans, partly by secret and partly by overt acts.
[69.13.2] Many outside nations, too, were joining them through eagerness for gain, and the whole earth, one might almost say, was being stirred up over the matter. Then, indeed, Hadrian sent against them his best generals. First of these was Julius Severus, who was dispatched from Britain, where he was governor, against the Jews.
[69.13.3] Severus did not venture to attack his opponents in the open at any one point, in view of their numbers and their desperation, but by intercepting small groups, thanks to the number of his soldiers and his under-officers. By depriving them of food and shutting them up, he was able - rather slowly, to be sure, but with comparatively little danger - to crush, exhaust and exterminate them. Very few of them in fact survived.
[69.14.1] Fifty of their most important outposts and nine hundred and eighty-five of their most famous villages were razed to the ground. Five hundred and eighty thousand men were slain in the various raids and battles, and the number of those that perished by famine, disease and fire was past finding out.
[69.14.2] Thus nearly the whole of Judaea was made desolate, a result of which the people had had forewarning before the war. For the tomb of Solomon, which the Jews regard as an object of veneration, fell to pieces of itself and collapsed, and many wolves and hyenas rushed howling into their cities.