Saint Caligula??!

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Geon

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Piratedude

Okay, not to belabor the point or derail this. But I did find this video on You Tube.


I will fully admit this is not a slam dunk but it does seem to provide at least circumstantial evidence that Joseph might have come to England. Please give it a look and let me know what you think. Note-it does say there is a reference to Joseph by a historian in 540 A.D. but I cannot make out the name or the work.

P.S. PIratedude thank you for this little side-trek. I do enjoy digging into history specifically early Christian history.
 
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PIratedude thank you for this little side-trek. I do enjoy digging into history specifically early Christian history.
Can't say i find the video all that convincing, but i don't feel like fighting over the point any further.

As for early Christian history, may i suggest this guy?
This dude is pretty thorough, and he's a professor of historical theology so he's fairly trustworthy
 
Tiberius Claudius Caesar

Geon

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The Reign of Tiberius Claudius Caesar

Tiberius Claudius Caesar (63 A.D. – 100 A.D.) became Emperor of Rome at the tender age of 17 upon the death of his father Tiberius Quirinius. Tiberius IV unfortunately, was not his father’s nor his grandfather’s son. Although, raised both on the literary works of the Greeks and on the Scriptures, Tiberius very quickly rejected both his baptism and the Christian faith.

There is strong evidence to suggest that Tiberius Claudius had been exposed at some point to the writings of Nero, most especially his Journal of Love Sonnets. Like Nero he considered Christianity a religion for stoics; not for one such as he who was a hedonist through and through.

Shortly after his reign began Claudius lifted the restrictions on the pagan temples, much to the delight of the pagan members of the Senate. He also abolished the “sin tax” on the brothels, many of which had been moved outside the city so that patrons would not have to pay the tax.

He expelled from his court the current Bishop of Rome Evaristus. During the times from the time of Caligula until Claudius the bishops of Rome had been the advisors to the Emperor. Now, they found themselves banished from his presence which further delighted the pagan members of the Senate.

Claudius immersed himself in lavish dinner parties to which he would invite many of his friends in the Senate and some of the wealthiest of Rome. These parties were known to last for days.

But it was not long before Claudius found himself becoming more and more discontent with the city of Rome. According to his contemporaries he found Rome “a dirty loathsome hive of humanity.” He longed for a place of his own away from this “clamoring mass.”

Thus, Tiberius Claudius sought to find a place to build a palace-resort for himself and his friends where he could truly in his words “enjoy myself in the style of a true emperor.”

He quickly discovered a perfect site for his new palace; a volcanic lake south of Rome, named Lake Nemi greatly enticed him with its view. It did not take long for him to settle on the lake as the perfect place to build his resort/palace.

Tiberius Claudius spared no expense in building his Pleasure Palace. It was huge and ornate requiring tons of marble and granite to be mined to build its elaborate buildings. A statue of rose quartz of the Emperor 15 feet high graced the entryway into the main palace. A temple to Bacchus with a large statue of the god done in marble and gilded with gold leaf was also built. Vast gardens and fountains adorned the palatial estate. Baths with both hot and cold running water were built as were huge banqueting halls equipped with rotating tables at which guests would be seated for the huge banquets. Frescoes and mosaics were commissioned by the finest artisans in Rome. All of them depicting the dalliances of the Greco/Roman deities.

The building of the Palace of Claudius took 8 years. On his 25th birthday Claudius left Rome in the charge of a loyal member of the 3rd legion and with great pomp and ceremony moved into his new pleasure palace.

Now Claudius proceeded to devote himself totally to nothing else but his own pleasure. In an amphitheater lavish plays and gladiatorial combats were performed for his amusement. He even ordered his servants to procure a collection of fine athletes to be trained as gladiators so they would “go up against the best poor Rome can offer.”

But all of this had a price tag, a big one. Within three years of his moving to his Palace of Pleasures the Empires’ coffers were starting to run dry due to the excesses of Claudius. Nor, was Claudius interested in the day-to-day running of the Empire. “After all, that is what my governors are for.” He is said to have remarked when confronted about this.

As indicated earlier the pagan Senators of Rome and the wealthy members of the aristocracy who were not Christian had at first welcomed the young Emperor’s rise to power. But now, some of them spoke fondly of “the days of the good Emperors,” referring to Claudius and his successors up to Claudius’ father.

Tiberius hedonistic lifestyle was going to bankrupt Rome if something wasn’t done soon. Evaristus prayed and fasted to the point of eventually losing his health in the hope that Claudius would come to his senses.

Finally, during a late-night feast at the Palace of Pleasures a slip of the tongue would cost Claudius the throne. Claudius had invited several Senators and other nobility from Rome for one of his weekend celebrations. At the feast Claudius tried to approach the daughter of one of the Senators asking if she would like to sleep with the Emperor that night. The young lady, who was of some considerable good breeding very politely refused. Whereupon Claudius petulantly said, “What then? Do you refuse me? Why, is it not an honor to be called to share the bed of a god?”

It was the wrong thing to say. The declaration made by Claudius’ grandfather, Tiberius Gemellus Caesar was still very much in effect, namely any Emperor who claimed divinity automatically forfeited the crown. And the father of the young lady that Claudius’ had wanted to bed was more then able to get the required two witnesses and bring the matter before the entire Senate once he returned to Rome.

The Senate by and large were now thoroughly disgusted with Claudius and his excesses. When the Senator had brought the issue before the Senate the vote to depose Claudius was near unanimous. And his governor in Rome, one Titus Aurelius was sent to arrest Claudius.

Titus Aurelius was the general of the 3rd Legion and the governor of Rome appointed by Claudius. He had also been raised in one of the Houses of Caligula and was if not a devout believer, still a very devoted member of the Church. (While Claudius showed no interest in Christianity likewise, he did nothing to actually impede or persecute the faith.)

Titus arrived at Claudius’ Pleasure Palace barely three days later with a large squad of loyal soldiers and proceeded to arrest the unfortunate Claudius bringing him back to Rome in chains practically naked! (Claudius had been in the middle of another one of his orgies.)

Brought before the Senate, the unfortunate Claudius was stripped of his crown. He might well have been executed but Timmaeus, the new Bishop of Rome surprisingly interceded for the man. Timmaeus felt that losing the crown was a just punishment in and of itself and any further punishment was simply vengeance seeking.

But Claudius’ days of pleasure seeking were over. He was exiled from Rome and forced to take up residence in a small town near the Italian Alps. He was allotted a small house there with a bedroom, living room, and a small bath. It was nowhere near the grand home he had known but it was not a hovel either.

Claudius would henceforth subsist on a diet of fruits and vegetables, bread, and water. The punishment of exile and a “penance” fast would soon become a popular means of punishment for more wealthy citizens convicted of crimes in Rome.

Claudius would remain in exile to his death in 100 A.D. Tradition says that Claudius became a Christian and was baptized a few months before his death but there is no way of verifying this apocryphal story.

As for his Palace of Pleasures, it would slowly fall into ruin, abandoned and later plundered for some of the stones and fine pieces of art that were there. Eventually the ruins would disappear and not be rediscovered until they were uncovered in 1957 by an Italian archeological team.
 
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Just a few nitpicks i know you said that you were not very good with it so heres the basics

If a mans name was Gaius Julius Caesar he was gaius of gentes Julia, of the Caesar house. Now for his son most likely he will be named after his father an uncle or grandfather which were all very similar. The oldest son would usually have his fathers name, the second son would most likely be something like Lucius Julius Caesar. There isnt a whole lot of change in names except the Praenomen which is the first name.

The only way to cross Gentes was usually adoption which meant that his name usually changed to his adoptive parents with a twist on his own, say Lucius Julius Caesar was adopted by Publius Cornelius Scipio, he would become Publius Cornelius Julianus Scipio or something of that description.

Now the other way to not have a name the same as his fathers or paternal ancestor would be to name him after a maternal ancestor that was very rare however he would still be of his fathers gentes.

So take it this way,

Gaius Julius Caesar has two sons,
Most likely names are Gaius Julius Caesar for his eldest son and say Lucius Julius Caesar after the fathers uncle. These two names would continue on mostly unchanged for generations with sons being named the same as their family members.

Now here comes my nitpick lol. Nero would not be Nero in this situation as he wasnt adopted by Claudius he would still be Gnaeus Domitius Ahenobarbus same as his father.

So Tiberius Julius Gemellus as he was adopted by Tiberius Caesar his son and descendants through a male line would not have the name Claudius in their name they would have been most likely Tiberius Julius Caesar or Tiberius Julius Drusus or Drusus Julius Caesar.

For Romans names were very much a ritual and very closely related within families which is why u would often end up with many Gaius Cornelius Scipios in a direct line.

I dont mean to be mean or nothing just trying to help with roman naming systems and to hopefully help the names of future Emperors and perhaps fix a few already in the story, such as the latest emperor who should be a Julii
 
No wonder their naming system fell apart in later years.

Auctually their naming system was very unique and i love the idea of it and how it worked. Another example i forgot is that the eldest son would keep his fathers name but the second son may take his mothers gentes name as his cognomen such as the case with Titus Flavius Vespasianus whose brother and father were both Titus Flavius Sabinus, Vespasian took his mothers gentes Vespasia as his cognomen the same would follow with his sons as Domitianus was a male version of Domitia his mother
 
Auctually their naming system was very unique and i love the idea of it and how it worked. Another example i forgot is that the eldest son would keep his fathers name but the second son may take his mothers gentes name as his cognomen such as the case with Titus Flavius Vespasianus whose brother and father were both Titus Flavius Sabinus, Vespasian took his mothers gentes Vespasia as his cognomen the same would follow with his sons as Domitianus was a male version of Domitia his mother
Honesty i just frind it all confusing, especially when people started have two or three cognomens. or after mass citizenship was granted and, because roman custom demanded it, thousands of people the roman world over adopted the emperor's name (Aurelius) and made it useless as an identifier
 
Honesty i just frind it all confusing, especially when people started have two or three cognomens. or after mass citizenship was granted and, because roman custom demanded it, thousands of people the roman world over adopted the emperor's name (Aurelius) and made it useless as an identifier

At this point in time that didnt happen, yes there were people with many cognomens at this point in roman history it was far less then the like 200 AD when people began having double or triple names

For the time period your in right now its prutty simplistic really, just keep in mind that 1st sons usually took either their fathers name or another ancestors name, second sons could either take a maternal cognomen or an uncles cognomen.

For the julian line at this time you would see most comonly Drusus Julius Caesar, Tiberius Julius Caesar, or Tiberius Julius Drusus Caesar, as they would be taking the names of the 4 great men of the dynasty Caesar Augustus Tiberius and Drusus.
 
@StevenIronside Out of interest, did I make any big mistakes in my 'names' post (page 7, post 124)? As I wrote there, I'm definitely not an expert and always like to learn more.

In a case like that im not exactly sure, in cases of an adoption like that or the people being given citizenship by the emperor, often they would take either the praenomen and nomen, while tsking thier own cognomen, such was the case for the reason the roman name fell apart in the late era, as their were so many Marcus Aurelius that people would often lose the praenomen, using their cognomen.

Same as Flavius became a common gentes so men would become Flavius belisarius flavius aetius.

So often they took the praenomen as the emperor and gentes, their own cognomen good rule to go by
 
Titus Aurelius

Geon

Donor
Titus Aurelius – Supreme Praetor

Shortly after the deposition of Tiberius Claudius, the Roman Senate attempted to proclaim Titus Aurelius as the new Caesar. But Titus Aurelius refused the title.

As indicated earlier, Titus Aurelius (55-110 A.D.) had been raised in one of the Houses of Caligula. Raised and baptized in the Christian faith he was also well-versed in the classical learning of most educated Romans. His honesty and integrity not to mention an ethic for hard work allowed him to rise quickly among the ranks of the army. Eventually he was named the commander of the Third Legion, which was the Emperor’s personal legion, since the time of Tiberius Gemellus.

His honesty and integrity and supposed loyalty also made him the favored candidate of the Emperor, Tiberius Claudius Caesar for becoming the governor of Rome while Tiberius Claudius dallied at his pleasure palace on Lake Nemi.

Yet, according to historians from the period, Titus was less then pleased with the hedonistic spend-thrift that now occupied the throne of Rome. Titus is said to have looked on with great distress as the coffers of Rome sank lower and lower due to the excesses of Tiberius Claudius.

When the fateful incident occurred, which marked the end of the reign of Tiberius it was with the greatest of pleasure that the general went to Lake Nemi and brought back the soon-to-be former Emperor clad only in his undergarments. Much of Rome turned out to gawk and jeer at the unfortunate Emperor as he was paraded through the streets of Rome to the Senate chambers to hear the sentence against him. The people of Rome, had also tired of the antics of their “absentee emperor.”

After Tiberius’ trial and exile Titus Aurelius was offered the crown of Rome but refused. He felt he had no right to assume the crown until a full search had been made for a proper heir to the throne. It should be noted at this point Tiberius had left no – legitimate – issue during his brief reign. The Roman Senate reluctantly accepted Titus’ refusal. Instead Titus would assume the title of Supreme Praetor.

As Supreme Praetor, Titus held all the powers of Emperor but could be deposed by the Roman Senate by vote. Titus declared that every sixth year the Senate was to meet and vote on whether his praetorship was to continue or whether another was to be chosen. It is significant that in the six times his praetorship was voted upon his rule was renewed for another six years.

During his reign the Christian bishop of Rome once more became a favored counselor. The “sin tax” on the brothels in Rome – now having moved back into Rome during the reign of Tiberius – was reinstated at a higher rate. Titus also issued an imperial decree that the “sin tax” was to be instituted in all parts of the Empire.

Titus also raised taxes on certain “luxury goods” – rare spices, fine oils, etc. – in Rome and throughout the Empire but decreed that this “luxury tax” would only remain in effect until “the coffers of Rome were full again.” He gave the Senate authority to “audit the books” on a regular yearly basis and also gave them limited authority to abolish the “luxury tax” once the deficit created by Tiberius was erased. It would take 10 years but the “luxury tax” was finally abolished in 90 A.D. by the Senate.

Unlike Tiberius, Titus Aurelius would live a very simple life. He refused any sort of special considerations and continued to live in the modest home he had occupied with his wife and two children before being appointed governor of Rome by Tiberius.

Titus' granting of limited power back to the Senate is believed to be the reason he was reelected as Supreme Praetor for 6 consecutive terms.

It was during this time that the Debates on Virtue in Public Leaders were held in the Senate. These were a series of debates in the Senate that came about early in the reign of Titus. After the near disastrous reign of Tiberius, Titus had considered having a law passed stating only those who professed the Christian faith and were baptized should be allowed to sit as either Emperor, or governors, or Senators.

The tentative law was brought before the Senate. Here it was hotly debated, and the chronicles of that debate were preserved by various writers for posterity. There were many among the pagan Senators who held that a pagan could be just as virtuous if not more so then many Christians. And there were those Christian Senators who contended that paganism by its very nature spawned immorality. When asked for his opinion the aging bishop of Rome Timmaeus said:

“It is clear to us that the very act of being baptized does not of itself convey virtue but rather a virtuous life is lived by one who follows what the Savior has decreed and what he has forbidden. Our Lord clearly taught, ‘not everyone who says to me Lord, Lord, will inherit the Kingdom of God…”

The so-called Decree of Virtue was rejected with several Christian and pagan Senators voting against it. The argument that virtue was not a commodity of only one religion had won the day.

Nonetheless, despite this failure, Titus would continue as Supreme Praetor until his death in 110 A.D. shortly after his reelection for a sixth consecutive term. According to chroniclers he suffered a stroke and fell from his chariot barely a week after his reelection. Despite his refusal of the crown he would be mourned by all of Rome and give a funeral which in the words of one historian, “was worthy of any Caesar.”
 
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An update on a early Christianity TL on ash Wensday?

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Geon

Donor
I want to just take this opportunity to thank everyone who has liked and supported this thread and especially for the nomination and second for the Turtledove. I am awed at how well this TL/Story has been received. Thank you all!
 
I want to just take this opportunity to thank everyone who has liked and supported this thread and especially for the nomination and second for the Turtledove. I am awed at how well this TL/Story has been received. Thank you all!
You’re the one who ought to be thanked, @Geon for writing such an excellent TL.
 

Geon

Donor
Thank you Count! I would give you a like but for some reason the like button doesn't work for me since we switched to a different server here where I work. So, consider this a like for your like!
 
The Second Republic

Geon

Donor
@JennyB regarding Herod Agrippa it is likely he didn't fare too well given his role-however minor in Jesus' crucifixion. It is likely Herod Agrippa finds himself removed from power and a Roman governor put in his place.

I want to thank everyone who has so graciously nominated me and seconded my nomination for a Turtledove. Frankly, I am amazed at how much everyone has enjoyed this. As a thank you here is a small new chapter! Please read, comment, and enjoy!
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The New Republic (74-218 A.D.)
What would become known as the New Republican era of the Roman Empire lasted from the beginning of the Praetorship of Titus Aurelius until the so-called Coup of Maximillian in 218 A.D.

In the first few years of the New Republican era there was indeed an earnest effort to search for an heir to the throne. But those efforts became more and more half-hearted as the years went by until the term, “until an Emperor is found”, became a popular slang phrase in Rome. The phrase referred to an indefinite period one had to wait.

The Senate saw the new era as a chance to regain the power of the Republic’s “glory days” which were romanticized by many historians and authors of the time. However, it should be noted the Roman Senate was not as powerful as its pre-Imperial counterpart. The Senate was granted power to tax or to remove taxes. It was granted power to elect the Praetor once every six years. And it had the power to in the words of the new Charter of the Republic drawn up in A.D. 119 to enact such laws as shall seem good for the welfare and well-being of the Empire.”(1)

However, the Supreme Praetor still held an enormous amount of power. He had the power to declare a state of emergency for up to three months, subject to renewal by the Senate in the event of war or other such major emergency.

The Praetor also had the power to be a war leader when necessary and to declare war. Thus, most of the Supreme Praetors were chosen from the army for their military experience.

A Supreme Praetor also had the power to order an investigation and if necessary, the removal of any Senator found to be in violation of Roman law. This was a power many of the Supreme Praetors would sadly use to remove potential political enemies using trumped up charges of corruption.

Finally, the Supreme Praetor had the power to veto any law the Senate passed, but only if less then 2/3 of the Senate had voted to approve it.

With limited power restored to the Senate by the Charter inevitably various factions arose each determined to monopolize their newly granted powers. There was the aristocratic faction which was determined Rome would be ruled as it had been in the days of the Old Republic by the elite families of Rome. There was the trade guild faction made up of a rising group of the newly rich mostly traders and wealthy merchants. There was a faction made up of the Christians who – at least initially – sought to represent the needs of the poor and to clean up the ‘deplorable immorality’ they saw in and around Rome. Finally, the army had a faction in the Senate. Since traditionally the Supreme Praetor was elected from the Roman army it was reasoned the army should have a say in the government.

It wasn’t long until this system however showed its short comings. Most Praetors rarely lasted more then one term as they roused the ire of one or more of the senatorial factions. It was a rare Praetor who served two terms. And it was not uncommon for violent demonstrations to break out in Rome come election time. Things got so bad that the Supreme Praetor Graccus Lucian decreed that all the taverns and bars in Rome were to be closed and any public gatherings were to be banned for two days on either side of the day the Senate met to choose a new Praetor. It was a resolution the Senate heartily endorsed given many of them feared for their life come election day lest irate crowds lynch them.

In addition, many Senators found themselves removed from office on either real or imaginary charges of corruption. Sadly, political vendettas became quite common in the later years of the Second Republican Age.

While Christianity continued to grow and flourish at this time there were those leaders in the church who more and more believed that it was wiser for Christians to stay out of politics. Pope John II (140-165) wrote in The Perils of Political Office of the dangers of corruption and urged Christians to seek the discernment of their presbyters and bishops before starting any sort of political career.

Unfortunately, even with the warnings of John and his successors the corruption in the Senate would continue to grow, until in 216 Praetor Maximillian Tertullius finally decided enough was enough.



1. The Prelude.
 
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