A New Beginning - Our 1992 Russian Federation

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shubham rai

boredviewer1234 said:
I will vote K, but will admit we might need to conduct a thorough analysis of the Russian far right soon, we've consistently been feeding them for decades and making choices out of fear of losing ground to them. Our political centre has definitely shifted to the right overtime, mainly because we are viewing this as the ''last landgrab'' but I don't think they will share that opinion.

By the way chat, I would try to avoid Novorossyia as that idea is inherently opposed to to a Ukrainian puppet state given it's absorbing the most pro Russian regions in Ukrainian society with the most connections to Russia.

By that Kharkiv, Donbas are some of Ukraine industrial heartlands have quite a of connections and generally look to Russia just across the border for trade and deals as well as having a historically important role in society. With them gone Ukraine will be smaller and look to the west for non Russian controlled ports as well as far more agrarian society.

Any pro Russian government subsequently in Kiev will have a much weaker base of possible support and be far likely to be overthrown.
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They are called puppets for a reason. We will do everything to make sure that they are not overthrown.

This Novorossyia looks amazing, but I understand that annexing it and Crimea while maintaining a puppet regime will be very hard, but annexing Donbas is plausible. We are not even going to get sanctioned, and if not, who knows, in the future some really far-right person will come to power due to our paper pushing and not giving Russia the place that it deserves.
 
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Empress_Boogalaboo

panpiotr said:
Please choose a option, what will happen with Ukraine in 2015, after President Yulia Tymoshenko will be deposed after Russian-led CSTO military intervention in Ukraine. The intervention will be sparked by Ukrainian Civil War in 2013-2015.

Map of proposed Novorossyia state:
View attachment 898018

A) Russia annexes Crimea and Novorossyia after referendums, the rest of Ukraine becomes member of EU and NATO;
B) Russia annexes Crimea and Novorossyia after referendums, the rest of Ukraine becomes neutral state;
C) Russia annexes Crimea and Novorossyia becomes an independent Pro-Russian state after referendums, the rest of Ukraine becomes member of EU and NATO;
D) Russia annexes Crimea and Novorossyia becomes independent Pro-Russian state after referendums, the rest of Ukraine becomes neutral state;
E) Russia annexes Crimea and Donbass after referendums, the rest of Ukraine becomes member of EU and NATO;
F) Russia annexes Crimea and Donbass after referendums, the rest of Ukraine becomes neutral state;
G) Russia annexes Crimea after referendum, the rest of Ukraine becomes neutral state;
H) Russia annexes Crimea and Novorossyia after referendums, the rest of Ukraine is turned into a Russian puppet state;
I) Russia annexes Crimea and Donbass after referendums, the rest of Ukraine is turned into Russian puppet state;
K) Russia annexes Crimea after referendum, the rest of Ukraine is turned into a Russian puppet state;

*The vote deals only what happens after the reverse Euromaidan in 2013/2014. Whether Ukraine or Novorossyia join the Union State or not will be decided in 2nd vote depending on your choice in this one. Also, annexation of Crimea is locked, so the nationalist sentiment in Russia is somehow appeased by the government.
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Option K. We can’t take too much from Ukraine, or the government that we want to leave in charge will have a hard time of keeping the peace.
 

dunHozzie

I'm not a big fan of these choices to be honest. Annexation of the Crimea will set bad blood that we need to fix before we can merge them in. People will be twice as cautious.
  1. So rather L: the Union will become a confederation with Ukraine, which holds sovereignty over everything except for defence, justice and foreign policy. The EEU takes care of economic integration, so its only a mock freedom, but perception matters.
  2. If that isn't possible M: the Union State formally asks the Ukrainian puppet government to arrange referendums about joining the Union State. The regions in I vote for the Union State, we roll weighted dice to determine the outcome.
  3. If that isn't possible N: We use soft military power to cover the Ukraine with Military Bases, plus we buy over their IMC (Industrial Military Complex) by buying them with the Union State equivalents. Plus EEU economic integration is dialed up to 11. Sorta like the USA did with post WW2 Europe.
Else, pure I.
 
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ThePinkRabbit

ThePinkRabbit

panpiotr said:
Please choose a option, what will happen with Ukraine in 2015, after President Yulia Tymoshenko will be deposed after Russian-led CSTO military intervention in Ukraine. The intervention will be sparked by Ukrainian Civil War in 2013-2015.

Map of proposed Novorossyia state:
View attachment 898018

A) Russia annexes Crimea and Novorossyia after referendums, the rest of Ukraine becomes member of EU and NATO;
B) Russia annexes Crimea and Novorossyia after referendums, the rest of Ukraine becomes neutral state;
C) Russia annexes Crimea and Novorossyia becomes an independent Pro-Russian state after referendums, the rest of Ukraine becomes member of EU and NATO;
D) Russia annexes Crimea and Novorossyia becomes independent Pro-Russian state after referendums, the rest of Ukraine becomes neutral state;
E) Russia annexes Crimea and Donbass after referendums, the rest of Ukraine becomes member of EU and NATO;
F) Russia annexes Crimea and Donbass after referendums, the rest of Ukraine becomes neutral state;
G) Russia annexes Crimea after referendum, the rest of Ukraine becomes neutral state;
H) Russia annexes Crimea and Novorossyia after referendums, the rest of Ukraine is turned into a Russian puppet state;
I) Russia annexes Crimea and Donbass after referendums, the rest of Ukraine is turned into Russian puppet state;
K) Russia annexes Crimea after referendum, the rest of Ukraine is turned into a Russian puppet state;

*The vote deals only what happens after the reverse Euromaidan in 2013/2014. Whether Ukraine or Novorossyia join the Union State or not will be decided in 2nd vote depending on your choice in this one. Also, annexation of Crimea is locked, so the nationalist sentiment in Russia is somehow appeased by the government.
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K
 

John Howard

panpiotr said:
Please choose a option, what will happen with Ukraine in 2015, after President Yulia Tymoshenko will be deposed after Russian-led CSTO military intervention in Ukraine. The intervention will be sparked by Ukrainian Civil War in 2013-2015.

Map of proposed Novorossyia state:
View attachment 898018

A) Russia annexes Crimea and Novorossyia after referendums, the rest of Ukraine becomes member of EU and NATO;
B) Russia annexes Crimea and Novorossyia after referendums, the rest of Ukraine becomes neutral state;
C) Russia annexes Crimea and Novorossyia becomes an independent Pro-Russian state after referendums, the rest of Ukraine becomes member of EU and NATO;
D) Russia annexes Crimea and Novorossyia becomes independent Pro-Russian state after referendums, the rest of Ukraine becomes neutral state;
E) Russia annexes Crimea and Donbass after referendums, the rest of Ukraine becomes member of EU and NATO;
F) Russia annexes Crimea and Donbass after referendums, the rest of Ukraine becomes neutral state;
G) Russia annexes Crimea after referendum, the rest of Ukraine becomes neutral state;
H) Russia annexes Crimea and Novorossyia after referendums, the rest of Ukraine is turned into a Russian puppet state;
I) Russia annexes Crimea and Donbass after referendums, the rest of Ukraine is turned into Russian puppet state;
K) Russia annexes Crimea after referendum, the rest of Ukraine is turned into a Russian puppet state;

*The vote deals only what happens after the reverse Euromaidan in 2013/2014. Whether Ukraine or Novorossyia join the Union State or not will be decided in 2nd vote depending on your choice in this one. Also, annexation of Crimea is locked, so the nationalist sentiment in Russia is somehow appeased by the government
Click to expand...
B.
 
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Gaúcho Maldito

Banned
panpiotr said:
Please choose a option, what will happen with Ukraine in 2015, after President Yulia Tymoshenko will be deposed after Russian-led CSTO military intervention in Ukraine. The intervention will be sparked by Ukrainian Civil War in 2013-2015.

Map of proposed Novorossyia state:
View attachment 898018

A) Russia annexes Crimea and Novorossyia after referendums, the rest of Ukraine becomes member of EU and NATO;
B) Russia annexes Crimea and Novorossyia after referendums, the rest of Ukraine becomes neutral state;
C) Russia annexes Crimea and Novorossyia becomes an independent Pro-Russian state after referendums, the rest of Ukraine becomes member of EU and NATO;
D) Russia annexes Crimea and Novorossyia becomes independent Pro-Russian state after referendums, the rest of Ukraine becomes neutral state;
E) Russia annexes Crimea and Donbass after referendums, the rest of Ukraine becomes member of EU and NATO;
F) Russia annexes Crimea and Donbass after referendums, the rest of Ukraine becomes neutral state;
G) Russia annexes Crimea after referendum, the rest of Ukraine becomes neutral state;
H) Russia annexes Crimea and Novorossyia after referendums, the rest of Ukraine is turned into a Russian puppet state;
I) Russia annexes Crimea and Donbass after referendums, the rest of Ukraine is turned into Russian puppet state;
K) Russia annexes Crimea after referendum, the rest of Ukraine is turned into a Russian puppet state;

*The vote deals only what happens after the reverse Euromaidan in 2013/2014. Whether Ukraine or Novorossyia join the Union State or not will be decided in 2nd vote depending on your choice in this one. Also, annexation of Crimea is locked, so the nationalist sentiment in Russia is somehow appeased by the government.
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Reading the vote again, I will vote for option K under the condition that there's a vote for the whole of Ukraine to join the Union State later. This seems optimal.
 

Gaúcho Maldito

Banned
shubham rai said:
Option I , K is basically nothing.
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I'm all for maximalist objectives in regard to Ukraine, just like you.

But I believe that in the interest of making the Ukrainian entity inside the Union State more loyal, we need to keep the Donbass inside it. Apparently there's going to be some kind of political machination to make Ukraine join the Union State some years later, and the Donbass could serve us better by working inside Ukraine to strengthen the position of our puppet there in making it possible.

If we take Donbass now, it would make Ukraine more offended and less prone to join us somewhat peacefully. Actually, this is an understatement. The Donbass is going to be the political and military stronghold of the guy we are going to put in charge of Ukraine. Think of Donbass youths instead of Moscow ones patrolling Lviv and Kiev's streets. Its just the cheaper option in every way.

If there was even an option to avoid annexing Crimea, I would take that option. Crimea has been voting consistently for pro-Russian politicians since 1991. Keeping Crimea as a stabilizing force for the Ukrainian entity inside the Union State would be optimal if we are thinking longterm. Just take a look at the 2010 presidential election map in Ukraine to understand the importance of Crimea, Lugansk and Donetsk for pro-russian political power inside Ukraine. These aren't swing states, Crimea is to the pro-Russians like Texas is to the Republicans.

ukraine_map_region_vote.jpg
 
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