The Empress of Silver and Gold: A Mary of Burgundy timeline

Who should Anne of Brittany marry

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Nuraghe

Nuraghe said:
Ahia, Brittany and the Orleans have fallen under the blows of the royal court, this is an immense boost for the morale of the French, even if the front against Burgundy is the most worrying ( so much so that it can easily besiege Paris itself ) and London could smell the blood in the water, and want to take part in the conflict ( I imagine with two objectives, liberating Brittany and gnaw some territory around Calais ) naturally compliments to Margaret for having convinced Isabella and Ferdinand not to enter the conflict, a risky but brilliant political move, finally Max has to decide whether to continue or try to negotiate from an advantageous position ( I hope for the latter, given that resources are starting to run out, but at least this way he will also be able to concentrate on his eastern front, what a necessity for his presence, but at least his renewed military prestige will make it easier for him to summon new troops from the archducal territories and the various minor princes of the Empire ) finally, I'm sorry for the loss of Maria's little unborn child, but at least she's still alive and you can always hope that in the future she can get pregnant again

Oh by the way, how is Innocent VIII in terms of health ?, given that in Otl I began to often feel ill from 1489 onwards, with a period in which he was excessively very close to death between 1490 - 91, so it's it is probable that Rodrigo Borgia becomes pontiff with a few years earlier before Otl
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I remembered one thing : with the premature death of Innocent VIII, the two useless wars against Naples were also avoided ( which can very well be considered two parts of the same conflict, given that they were extremely close from 1485 - 1487 and then 1489 - 1492 , is that one of the triggering causes was the failure to respect the vassalage ceremony, with the attached annual tribute of 8 thousand ducats that Naples owed to Rome ) these conflicts further weakened the resistance and capabilities of the two states in the years to come, facilitating France in his first Italian campaign

finally there is another thing that only came to mind now, namely that a more pacified Burgundy compared to Otl allows Maximilian to be able to do better in future conflicts in which he will be involved, among which there is also the Swabian war, where instead of settling for a Status Quo ante Bellum and the recognition of autonomy for the Swiss, it could aim to recover the old ones
Habsburg possessions south of the Rhine, which over the course of the century were occupied by the Swiss Confederation ( particularly those in Aargau which were lost in 1415 and those in Thurgau which were occupied in 1460), I certainly doubt that he could impose a draconian peace, but recovering some small possessions is within his reach, so that it can facilitate communications between Burgundy and the archducal territories, connecting them via further Austria )
 
Last edited:

Nuraghe

Nuraghe said:
I remembered one thing : with the premature death of Innocent VIII, the two useless wars against Naples were also avoided ( which can very well be considered two parts of the same conflict, given that they were extremely close from 1485 - 1487 and then 1489 - 1492 , is that one of the triggering causes was the failure to respect the vassalage ceremony, with the attached annual tribute of 8 thousand ducats that Naples owed to Rome ) these conflicts further weakened the resistance and capabilities of the two states in the years to come, facilitating France in his first Italian campaign

finally there is another thing that only came to mind now, namely that a more pacified Burgundy compared to Otl allows Maximilian to be able to do better in future conflicts in which he will be involved, among which there is also the Swabian war, where instead of settling for a Status Quo ante Bellum and the recognition of autonomy for the Swiss, it could aim to recover the old ones
Habsburg possessions south of the Rhine, which over the course of the century were occupied by the Swiss Confederation ( particularly those in Aargau which were lost in 1415 and those in Thurgau which were occupied in 1460), I certainly doubt that he could impose a draconian peace, but recovering some small possessions is within his reach, so that it can facilitate communications between Burgundy and the archducal territories, connecting them via further Austria )
Click to expand...



there is another important detail that I see happening in the short term, mainly concerning Burgundy, namely the definitive resolution of the Guelders problem, which here I see finally annexed to the Burgundian territories 60 years early ( even if Max in OTL several times had warned the states general to address the issue quickly and decisively, so as to avoid future problems, but was never seriously listened to ), by doing so a troublesome French ally will be eliminated, which in OTL caused serious damage to the northern regions of the duchy and wasted important economic and human resources that could be used elsewhere ( for example against France or to finance administrative and infrastructural improvements in the dynastic territories )
 
pandizzy

pandizzy

Juana la Beltraneja getting married is tricky considering she literally had nun's vows. Did she get an annulment of her vows since they were made in distress?
 

Prince of Permsia

Nuraghe said:
Ahia, Brittany and the Orleans have fallen under the blows of the royal court, this is an immense boost for the morale of the French, even if the front against Burgundy is the most worrying ( so much so that it can easily besiege Paris itself ) and London could smell the blood in the water, and want to take part in the conflict ( I imagine with two objectives, liberating Brittany and gnaw some territory around Calais ) naturally compliments to Margaret for having convinced Isabella and Ferdinand not to enter the conflict, a risky but brilliant political move, finally Max has to decide whether to continue or try to negotiate from an advantageous position ( I hope for the latter, given that resources are starting to run out, but at least this way he will also be able to concentrate on his eastern front, what a necessity for his presence, but at least his renewed military prestige will make it easier for him to summon new troops from the archducal territories and the various minor princes of the Empire ) finally, I'm sorry for the loss of Maria's little unborn child, but at least she's still alive and you can always hope that in the future she can get pregnant again

Oh by the way, how is Innocent VIII in terms of health ?, given that in Otl I began to often feel ill from 1489 onwards, with a period in which he was excessively very close to death between 1490 - 91, so it's it is probable that Rodrigo Borgia becomes pontiff with a few years earlier before Otl
Click to expand...
All these are fine points. I did not know about Innovent VIII's health issues. As of now I plan on keeping the Papacy close to OTL unless I can think of a specific reason for things to change. This timeline will go to Italy eventually.
Dragonboy said:
Amazing chapter. Hope that max reaches a good peace with France. poor Mary.

And a good idea For little Catherine.
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Thank you. Yeah just because Mary survived doesn't mean things will be easy.
Awkwardvulture said:
So there is peace between Spain and Navarre, at least for now...
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At least for now....
Andristan said:
Poor Mary, I feel for her. Great job Max, nows a good time for Peace, you have other problems in Germany and points east. Alas poor Francis, and poor Anne now fatherless, hopefully the English assistance will give the Bretons some independence, maybe as an Englsh dependency? or the Breton nobles get to be independent but all their French land is confiscated to the crown, unless they quit Brittany, or something like that.
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Francis lived by the sword and died by it. Spoilers but I think Anne will be much happier in this timeline.
Liminia1 said:
The legend is back :D
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Awww thanks I try to live up to your esteem.
Nuraghe said:
I remembered one thing : with the premature death of Innocent VIII, the two useless wars against Naples were also avoided ( which can very well be considered two parts of the same conflict, given that they were extremely close from 1485 - 1487 and then 1489 - 1492 , is that one of the triggering causes was the failure to respect the vassalage ceremony, with the attached annual tribute of 8 thousand ducats that Naples owed to Rome ) these conflicts further weakened the resistance and capabilities of the two states in the years to come, facilitating France in his first Italian campaign

finally there is another thing that only came to mind now, namely that a more pacified Burgundy compared to Otl allows Maximilian to be able to do better in future conflicts in which he will be involved, among which there is also the Swabian war, where instead of settling for a Status Quo ante Bellum and the recognition of autonomy for the Swiss, it could aim to recover the old ones
Habsburg possessions south of the Rhine, which over the course of the century were occupied by the Swiss Confederation ( particularly those in Aargau which were lost in 1415 and those in Thurgau which were occupied in 1460), I certainly doubt that he could impose a draconian peace, but recovering some small possessions is within his reach, so that it can facilitate communications between Burgundy and the archducal territories, connecting them via further Austria )
Click to expand...
This is an area you know much more about than me. I am willing to talk to you about plans but as of this post, everything in Italy has happened as of OTL. And yeah Max has a lot of options. He might actually be remembered as a successful and transformative monarch instead of something of a failed dreamer.
Nuraghe said:
there is another important detail that I see happening in the short term, mainly concerning Burgundy, namely the definitive resolution of the Guelders problem, which here I see finally annexed to the Burgundian territories 60 years early ( even if Max in OTL several times had warned the states general to address the issue quickly and decisively, so as to avoid future problems, but was never seriously listened to ), by doing so a troublesome French ally will be eliminated, which in OTL caused serious damage to the northern regions of the duchy and wasted important economic and human resources that could be used elsewhere ( for example against France or to finance administrative and infrastructural improvements in the dynastic territories )
Click to expand...
I haven't even touched Guelders yet, probably an oversight on my part.
 
1489
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    • Prince of Permsia

    1489

    France
    Anne’s plan was to split the English off from the Burgundians. She knew from her spies at court that King Edward was not eager for war. So if she could satisfy him with a good peace he would leave the Burgundians out to dry, even if it meant leaving potential spoils on the table.

    Her proposal was this
    -Charles and Elizabeth will finally consummate their marriage, thus confirming Edward’s sister as the Queen of France.
    -Henry and Jasper Tudor will be turned over to English custody.
    -The ports of Le Harve and Cherbourg will be turned over to English control, with the option to ransom them for money.
    -In place of his brother the King, Richard of Shrewsberry will wed Anne of Brittany. Once the young Duke swears allegiance to King Charles and pays a hefty indemnity from the Breton treasury, French troops will be withdrawn from the Duchy.
    -France will make a peace with Burgundy no harsher than restoring the status quo as of the death of Louis XI.

    Anne gambled on several factors benefiting France
    -Richard of Shrewsberry was young and could be turned against his brother, or at least towards a policy of neutrality.
    -The English were suffering from financial troubles and would prefer to redeem Cherbourg and Le Harve for cash rather than hold onto them, and risk costly wars to keep them.
    -For England, Burgundy’s main utility was control of the channel ports. They cared little for Maximilian’s pretensions towards Ducal Burgundy, and his grander ambitions would make him too powerful, and thus a threat to the English.

    The English representatives accept her terms and leave the Burgundians out to dry. Another blow is struck when Maximilian is forced to withdraw from Paris due to logistical problems. His army having been decimated by combat and disease. With all other enemies defeated Anne was able to concentrate all the considerable resources of the French state towards the Burgundians.

    The results were a spectacular reversal of fortune. Maximilian’s army was chased across Picardy. Meanwhile, a revolt broke out in Ducal Burgundy. The local nobility and gentry had grown to resent the high taxes levied for the war and desired a return to French rule.

    The King is more than happy about the treaty. Not only are his geopolitical aims accomplished, but he can finally bed Elizabeth. By the end of the year, the young Queen of France is with child. Anne jokes in a letter to Pierre about her brother's enthusiasm.


    Burgundy
    1489 proved to be a dark year for the House of Burgundy. Maximilian suffered a series of battlefield reverses, losing much of his gains across northern France, and losing his chance to capture Paris. Worse was to follow. French forces were able to link up with a rebellion of disaffected nobles and retake Dijon.

    On the home front, the family suffered further tragedy. Little Charles took ill. Despite the efforts of his doctors and the prayers of his family, the little boy passed away. With him died the hope of holding Ducal Burgundy. Grieving. Maximilian finally asked for peace terms. Young Philip of Burungdy is very protective of his grieving mother.


    England
    Despite the angry protestations of his Uncle, young King Edward was satisfied with his peace treaty. With but a stroke of a pen he had gained almost as much as he would have by war.
    English armies are sent to Brittany and to the ports of Le Harve and Cherbourg, but they were merely to affirm the results of the treaty, not to fight the French.

    The young King found himself short a bride. His councilors ultimately decided on two options, Margaret of Austria, or Juana of Spain, daughter of the Catholic monarchs. Ultimately it was decided to ask for the hand of Juana of Castile, since wedding Margaret of Austria so soon after signing a treaty with France would smack of duplicity, and might tempt the French to revoke their concessions.

    Richard and Anne quickly took a liking to one another. Anne found her husband to be charming and sweet, if a bit immature. His joyful nature helped her deal with her grief for her father. Richard for his part was charmed by Anne, her virtue and her dignity, her maturity for one so young, and yearned to impress her.

    Spain
    With the crisis in Navarre resolved the Catholic monarchs are free to focus all their attentions on the war against the Moors.

    King Edward's offer of marriage was received with mixed feelings by Ferdinand and Isabella. Isabella was deeply reluctant to commit two of her children to the York regime in England. Moreover, she and Ferdinand could not help but notice how the Yorkists left their theoretical allies in Burgundy and Brittany out to dry, only intervening when it served their interests. As a result, a new plan was decided. Juana would be betrothed to Edward. In exchange, Catherine’s betrothal to Juan would be ended, leaving him free to make a more advantageous marriage.

    Meanwhile in Navarre Queen Juana seeks solace by patronizing the arts.
     
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