Inspired by Maximinus Thrax IIs thread, I got to wondering , WI Churchill, instead of stopping the development of the .280 British cartridge, had instead seen its value, and tried to sell the idea (if not the cartridge itself) to the French and/or other European powers? Could he have been successful? And what might have been the effect of the European powers having an assault rifle in the 50s?
WI: European Intermediate Cartridge in the 50s
- Thread starter MattII
- Start date
Deleted member 1487
No. The Euros were broke AF and the US was the paymaster, so would get what they want. The French were never not going to keep the 7.5x54, because it was already in production and they were not going to pay to adopt a US cartridge with the same performance. The only potential option for an intermediate was everyone just saying 'screw it' and adopting the 7.92 Kurz considering it was already ready to go, there was all the barrel and case making equipment that the Euros could need because Germany wasn't allowed to keep them, and even the FN FAL was originally designed in 7.92 Kurz.
If only they had read the Kent report...
If only they had read the Kent report...
Deleted member 1487
I guess have FN keep the FAL in 7.92 and have the Brits stick to their guns on the issue since they already had 7.92 case and barrel equipment from WW2 plus German captures. The Brits had already considered adopting 7.92 late in WW2 anyway. So maybe Churchill doesn't come back and the Brits just opt for the cheapest option, the 7.92 Kurz and FAL.
That would mean abandoning their .280 MMG plan, but they had Brens already, just keep using them and do a better job on designing a belt mechanism. Actually that would probably end up being much cheaper than converting to 7.62 NATO. Ironically West Germany probably has to convert to 7.62 NATO, like it or not due to the US equipping and funding their military at it's refounding, while the Brits have 7.92 Mauser.
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Germany has to convert to 7.62 x 51 NATO for their Battle Rifles and Machine Guns, but the 7.92 x 33 Kurz is a less powerful cartridge, so there's nothing blocking Germany from adopting it alongside the NATO one, unless the US has specifically banned them from having intermediate cartridges.
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Deleted member 1487
Finances would prevent them from adopting it, since they'd have to buy 7.92 barrel and bullet making equipment, plus maybe case making equipment, since it is a bit different than 7.62 NATO.
Cuirassier
Banned
It has the benefit of already existing but otherwise it is a pretty mediocre cartridge.
It would save the French a lot so more likely to be agreed to if a joint project, GB was going to need new tooling anyway as the 303 is rimed so not suitable to use, the issue is that going to a 7.62 30-06 Kurtz (ie even more so than 7.62 NATO is) is more likely as US is more important supplier....
I think that's realistically the easiest option that US might accept ie 7.62x40 and 30-06 for MGs using same case head for easy manufacturing?
Except for catching up to the godless commies and saving strategic material I would think the money better spent on artillery the real killer.
marathag
Banned
Almost there, really.
Move the Brits away from Cordite strands to flake or extruded powder, you can shrink the case while keeping enough capacity for modern propellants
at the desired velocity
303 blank
