WI: California seceded during the Civil War

corvus13

California only gave a little over 32% of the vote to Lincoln in the 1860 election, and there was a large pro-Southern sentiment. Albert Sidney Johnston, later a Confederate general, was the commander of US forces in California during the secession crisis, but he remained adamantly against pro-Confederate takeover of US military posts while he was in command.

What if Johnston had joined the secessionists, or, at best, stepped aside and let it happen? There was a move to form a Pacific Republic with Oregon. Could they have convinced Nevada and Washington Territories to join them? What if a viable Pacific Republic was formed in 1861? Was the gold sent east by California important enough to the Union efforts that losing it might effect the outcome of the war?
 
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TickTock The Witch's Dead

Divil War? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Boy that was a good one. Lots of kudos to you good pal.
 

corvus13

RandomWriterGuy said:
Divil War? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Boy that was a good one. Lots of kudos to you good pal.
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uh, I asked for a correction. Before you sank so low as to post.
 
Tjakari

Tjakari

Some part of me began to question that the word Divil existed. Perhaps it meant divisive or something along those lines.

Anyway, not sure how that works given how impermanent the population of California is .
 
Cahaya Purnama

Cahaya Purnama

Tjakari said:
Some part of me began to question that the word Divil existed. Perhaps it meant divisive or something along those lines.

Anyway, not sure how that works given how impermanent the population of California is .
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*whispering*sst Calbear is Californian Bear
 

Rich Rostrom

corvus13 said:
California only gave a little over 32% of the vote to Lincoln in the 1860 election...
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True. But another 32% went to fervent Unionist Democrat Stephen Douglas, and 8% to Constitutional Union candidate John Bell.

... and there was a large pro-Southern sentiment.
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The "Chivalry", a faction of pro-Southern Democrats who were nearly all from the South, had a very strong influence in California politics. But they were far from having complete control of the state.

The 1859 killing of U.S. Senator Broderick, a leading Free-Soil Democrat, by former state Supreme Court Chief Justice Terry, a leader of the Chivalry, was a blow to Union Democrats, but it was also a blow to the Chivalry, as Terry was charged with murder. He was acquitted, but left the state.

What if Johnston had joined the secessionists, or, at best, stepped aside and let it happen?
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There were other officers in the Department of the Pacific, most of them loyal, and it seems unlikely that even if Johnston was secessionist that he could hand over the posts to secessionist civilians.
 

David T

corvus13 said:
California only gave a little over 32% of the vote to Lincoln in the 1860 election, and there was a large pro-Southern sentiment. Albert Sidney Johnston, later a Confederate general, was the commander of US forces in California during the secession crisis, but he remained adamantly against pro-Confederate takeover of US military posts while he was in command.

What if Johnston had joined the secessionists, or, at best, stepped aside and let it happen? There was a move to form a Pacific Republic with Oregon. Could they have convinced Nevada and Washington Territories to join them? What if a viable Pacific Republic was formed in 1861? Was the gold sent east by California important enough to the Union efforts that losing it might effect the outcome of the war?
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The problem is that the Broderick-Terry duel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broderick–Terry_duel had discredited the pro-Southern "Chivalry" wing of the California Democracy. Yes, Lincoln only got 32.3 percent of the vote of California in 1860--but his nearest rival was Douglas (31.7 percent), not Breckinridge (28.3 percent) http://psephos.adam-carr.net/countries/u/usa/pres/1860.txt The Douglasites were of course opposed to secession and I doubt that even most Breckinridge supporters were secessionists. (After all, Breckinridge got 19 percent of the vote in Connecticut, and in Massachusetts his supporters included Ben Butler...) All the evidence is that Gwin and other advocates of a Pacific Coast Republic were a distinct minority. (There was some secessionist sentiment in sparsely-populated southern California, especially in places like El Monte that had been largely settled by Texans.)

Also, look at the 1861 gubernatorial election--the "Peace Democrat" McConnell again only got 28 percent of the vote in a three-way race won by Republican Leland Stanford. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_gubernatorial_election,_1861
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
RandomWriterGuy said:
Divil War? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Boy that was a good one. Lots of kudos to you good pal.
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Every time someone here acts like a jackass a baby sealion cries.

Don't make baby sealions cry (again).
 

Uff Da the optimist

Donor
The Union would eventually win but this could severly weaken them internationally and have ramifications. Other countries might view this as a "everybody abandoning a sinking ship"-moment and recognize the Confederacy which makes the aftermath of a Union victory more bitter.

Suppose the Pacific Republic manages to hold the Union off during ACW maybe this leads to important relations with Russia?
Alaska is still Alayaska and maybe the Tsar could see this as a bargaining chip(for what purpose I don't know) or an opportunity at something.

Eventually the Union would show up and demand submission, but they're at the end of a long supply line compared to the Pacific Republic.

Also, why is "divil" so funny? Is this something only a native english speaking person could understand? It's a spelling error, but was it that funny?
 
SlyDessertFox

SlyDessertFox

If you guys didn't notice, the d is right above the c on the keyboard. It's not that hard to accidentally hit the wrong one.

Now if everyone can stop being assholes for one minute, can we please focus on what the OP is actually asking?
 
Baconheimer

Baconheimer

California only had about 400,000 wheras the Confederacy had ~9,000,000. Plus, most of the people in California were immigrants. In the South, there was a successful counter-secession in Virginia, and talk of doing it elsewhere. California would be somewhat divided because of that. If a stable government was established, it would be isolated. No Trans-Continental Railroad would make it hard for it to be attacked, but it would have to get its supplies from the Pacific. The US would lose some troops, but when the US finished fighting the CSA, it would defeat California. This is, however, if a foreign power does not support California, which is probably unlikely. It has fewer resources than the CSA, and is probably unstable.
 

Texas Jack

corvus13 said:
California only gave a little over 32% of the vote to Lincoln in the 1860 election, and there was a large pro-Southern sentiment. Albert Sidney Johnston, later a Confederate general, was the commander of US forces in California during the secession crisis, but he remained adamantly against pro-Confederate takeover of US military posts while he was in command.

What if Johnston had joined the secessionists, or, at best, stepped aside and let it happen? There was a move to form a Pacific Republic with Oregon. Could they have convinced Nevada and Washington Territories to join them? What if a viable Pacific Republic was formed in 1861? Was the gold sent east by California important enough to the Union efforts that losing it might effect the outcome of the war?
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That question was posted on a thread several years ago and the consensus was that the gold was used for the Union to buy more and better weapons during the war.

Bottom line: Not having that gold would slow down the war, but would not change the outcome.
 
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