WI: 9/11 and the ISI

This is borderline ASB, but if you look at it from the right perspective...

Who profited most from the events following 9/11? Not Al Qaedea or the Taleban, though the former gained stature and a kind of respect it really doesn't merit. Not Bush or the Neocons, they're finished as a political force, though they had one helluva good time while it lasted. Not Saudi Arabia, they are seriously worried. No Arab regime, nor Israel, as some insist. No European country. China - probably couldn't care less, and Russia may have found the excuse for repression convenient, but it's not like Putin needed one. The only country that managed to ride the 9/11 backlash from near-rogue status and all but enemy to hemispheric ally and indispensible aid (with all the monetary, political and social rewards this carries), was - Pakistan.

Is it too far fetched to wonder whether Pakistan's intelligence service was less than innocent? It is well known that Ziauddin Butt (why do Pakistani officials always have hilarious names?), ISI director until 1999, was a strong supporter of the Taleban and Islamic extremist. The Taleban regime enjoyed the aid and protection of the ISI from its inception, at a time when Pakistan's nclear programme and questionable policies brought it perilously close to rogue status. That Islamabad sponsored terrorism is not a secret.

Now, assuming Butt was aware of Al Qaeda's plans it would have been in character to quietly help them along. Once replaced by musharraf loyalist Mahmud Ahmed, the operation was already in the works and the calculation was simple - own up to involvement in a terror plot nobody would consider feasible anway and suffer the opprobrium (or the shameful treatment Sudan's intelligence suffered from the Clinton administration), or let it happen and ride the shockwave. Musharraf manages to trade huge concessions in return for his disavowal of the Taleban (something he may well have been planning to do) and combating domestic extremism (his political opponents). He sold himself as the 'stable option' in an area vital for NATO's success in Afghanistan while retaining considerable influence in the country and sacrificing very little of his own military power. He averted the risk of being permanently eclipsed by a democratic, wealthy and militarily powerful India by dint of sitting in the right spot at the right time.

Indian intelligence acquires documents that outlines the current Pakistani government's complicity in 9/11 in 2003. What do they do?
 

Ak-84

Banned
This is borderline ASB, but if you look at it from the right perspective...

Who profited most from the events following 9/11? Not Al Qaedea or the Taleban, though the former gained stature and a kind of respect it really doesn't merit. Not Bush or the Neocons, they're finished as a political force, though they had one helluva good time while it lasted. Not Saudi Arabia, they are seriously worried. No Arab regime, nor Israel, as some insist. No European country. China - probably couldn't care less, and Russia may have found the excuse for repression convenient, but it's not like Putin needed one. The only country that managed to ride the 9/11 backlash from near-rogue status and all but enemy to hemispheric ally and indispensible aid (with all the monetary, political and social rewards this carries), was - Pakistan.

Is it too far fetched to wonder whether Pakistan's intelligence service was less than innocent? It is well known that Ziauddin Butt (why do Pakistani officials always have hilarious names?), ISI director until 1999, was a strong supporter of the Taleban and Islamic extremist. The Taleban regime enjoyed the aid and protection of the ISI from its inception, at a time when Pakistan's nclear programme and questionable policies brought it perilously close to rogue status. That Islamabad sponsored terrorism is not a secret.

Now, assuming Butt was aware of Al Qaeda's plans it would have been in character to quietly help them along. Once replaced by musharraf loyalist Mahmud Ahmed, the operation was already in the works and the calculation was simple - own up to involvement in a terror plot nobody would consider feasible anway and suffer the opprobrium (or the shameful treatment Sudan's intelligence suffered from the Clinton administration), or let it happen and ride the shockwave. Musharraf manages to trade huge concessions in return for his disavowal of the Taleban (something he may well have been planning to do) and combating domestic extremism (his political opponents). He sold himself as the 'stable option' in an area vital for NATO's success in Afghanistan while retaining considerable influence in the country and sacrificing very little of his own military power. He averted the risk of being permanently eclipsed by a democratic, wealthy and militarily powerful India by dint of sitting in the right spot at the right time.

Indian intelligence acquires documents that outlines the current Pakistani government's complicity in 9/11 in 2003. What do they do?


1) Why do westerners have stupid terms for affection? I mean, hug for embrace? Hug means; shit.

2) I would diagree that Pakistan benefited from 9-11, it found itself opposed by the Taliban and facing a hostile government in Kabul, something it has attempted to avoid since 1947.

3) Pakistan's decision to support the Taliban was due to its long standing policy of ensuring their is a complient and non-threatning government on its western flank. The Taliban were supported by then interior minister, Naseerullah Babur; a man who is an avowed Pashtun nationalist and secularist.

4) You are a bit behind the times. Indian intelligence have discovered Pakistani links to 9-11 at least 20 times since the event, the first time was on 9-12.
 
I wouldn't say Pakistan gained anything from 9/11. Suddenly they had to choose between their islamic brethren in Afghanistan and their strategical allies in the US. Of course they chose the US, but that meant that many of their officials and generals who were pro- talebans had to be fired as well as the fact that the country now was a enemy of their own pashtune population.
 

Hendryk

Banned
Indian intelligence have discovered Pakistani links to 9-11 at least 20 times since the event, the first time was on 9-12.
Could you provide us with sources? I'm quite willing to accept the reality of such links, the ISI being notorious for its collusion with Islamist terrorists in general, but I'd like the claim to be substantiated.
 
There is another country that seems to have benefited quite a bit: Iran.

Their main regional enemy, Iraq, is gone and the USA seems to be badly overstreched militarily. All in all, they are in a much better position.
 
Pakistan didn't need 9/11 to be close to the U.S. They have been considered a major non-NATO ally, albeit a dangerous one, since long before 2001. And, don't forget that they have been buddy-buddy with the Chinese since they were created.
Also, they suddenly had to make an enemy of a regime that they have spent the last two decades wooing, indefinitely suspending any hopes they may have had of taming the Northwestern Frontier.

Anyway, if this did somehow happen, India would pass it on the U.S., who would prepare a U.S.-U.K.-Indian invasion. China would make them back off and settle for a retaliatory air strikes.
And then the U.S. invades Algeria, because they have about as much to with Pakistan has Iraq had to do with Afghanistan. American middle eastern policy is all about the non sequitors.
 
I wouldn't say Pakistan gained anything from 9/11. Suddenly they had to choose between their islamic brethren in Afghanistan and their strategical allies in the US. Of course they chose the US, but that meant that many of their officials and generals who were pro- talebans had to be fired as well as the fact that the country now was a enemy of their own pashtune population.

Was Musharraf ever a friend of the more militant wing? I was under the impression he wasn't exactly close to the pro-Taleban faction and quite willing to crack down on the extremists. Of course the Afghan situation hasn't turned out to his advantage, but that wasn't something that could be foreseen. Most people at the time expected a pro-US regime would be installed, which would have favoured Pakistan as an established US ally in the region.

PLus, look at the money he's making off the GWOT.
 
1) Why do westerners have stupid terms for affection? I mean, hug for embrace? Hug means; shit.

Seriously? That's almost as good as Barf detergent. Man, I'd love to meet the poor guy who has to sell Huggy Bears in Karachi...

2) I would diagree that Pakistan benefited from 9-11, it found itself opposed by the Taliban and facing a hostile government in Kabul, something it has attempted to avoid since 1947.

Hmmm. THe Taleban weren't exactly what youi'd call controllable. Then again, you probably have a point. The benefits don't compare that well.
How much exactly were preferential trade links, miolitary aid, loans and support worth? And how much does Musharraf's political survival owe to a US-led hands-off stance?

4) You are a bit behind the times. Indian intelligence have discovered Pakistani links to 9-11 at least 20 times since the event, the first time was on 9-12.

I would prefer something that isn't a prequel to 'Mobile Facilities', myself.
 
There is another country that seems to have benefited quite a bit: Iran.

Their main regional enemy, Iraq, is gone and the USA seems to be badly overstreched militarily. All in all, they are in a much better position.

Their intelligence would have had to be extremely good in that case. I'll buy that they had something to do with the Iraqi exile groups, but did any sane person think that 9/11 would increase the likelihood of US invasion in Iraq?
 
Well, Bush was looking for any excuse....Honestly, I seriously don't think they could have set it up, but they did benefit a lot.
 
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