What Now? - The Question that Defined A Generation
- Thread starter Texas Bulldog
- Start date
No, but they have inherited missiles. That's the only reason they haven't been invaded yet.
Polish wikiboxes
mr morbius
Kicked
Lech Wałęsa - Germanized, a member of the Bunderstag for his hometown. Member of whatever Conservative Party this new Germany has.
Here's some hypothethical Polish Wikiboxes for the 90s.
mr morbius
Kicked
And Also a map of the various Partizan Groups, with a very rough outline of Pre-WW2 Poland overlaid on top of it
EDIT :
... and some extra Propaganda Posters made by the Underground State.
Last edited:
I never realized that. I just changed the map to add Eastern Galicia to Poland.
Is the Anglo-Scottish border different from OTL? Looks like Berwick might've been attached to Scotland. Difficult to tell at this scale!
What happened in Britain? Did it come under German occupation or did Germany manage to topple the UK some other way?
How did Ireland come to control all of Ulster? Is the British remnant a monarchy or a republic, or is it still occupied? What's it called, the United Kingdom of England and Wales? The Kingdom of England? Or did they take a leaf out of Vichy's book and call themselves the English State (or British State)? Is there a 'Free British' government-in-exile somewhere in North America or Australasia, and if so do they control any of the remaining British territories?
What's happening in the Levant? Is the teal colour Israel? If so, how did Zionism develop in a world with a victorious Nazi Germany? What is the relationship like between the Axis bloc and the Arab and Islamic worlds? Especially with Italy still in possession of Libya and Tunisia? How are the various Christian peoples of the Middle East faring ITTL compared to OTL?
Firstly, thanks for the questions!
I tried my best to do the OTL Anglo-Scottish border.
The UK spirals into chaos after signing a humiliating peace with the Axis, but not before a tremendous bombing campaign. In the treaty, they lose control of Egypt, Malta, Gibraltar, and Palestine, as well as being forced to commit to continental neutrality.
Queen Elizabeth's death is the final straw. In an ad-hoc referendum in the 1970s, Scotland secedes, and a German-aligned Ireland takes the opportunity to seize Ulster after the monarchy, and then the nation collapses. The United Republic of England and Wales emerges out of the whole mess, scarred. The URE allies with the USA, tearing up the treaty with Germany and vowing revenge.
I have changed the map to remove Israel. Axis relations with the Arab World are tense, strained by Italy's continued occupation of Libya, Tunisia, and Palestine. The various Christian peoples of the Middle East have been largely resettled in Libya through programs funded by Italy.
All Eyes on Europe
All Eyes on Europe
Everyone who was alive back in those days remembers where they were when they heard the news. Some were on buses, cooking dinner. Then came the reports in the evening. Across the world, the news had emerged. The Reich had been defeated...
Excerpt from the essay "The End of the Cold War"
"The early 1990s were a hopeful time. The scourge of Nazism had been nearly eradicated from the face of the earth, and America and her allies once again dared to step foot upon the European continent. In her famous speech "Brave New World", just days after the defeat of the remaining Heer forces, President Patsy Mink emphasized the need to move forward together with all free nations of the world. This speech was largely overshadowed by the horrific news streaming out of Germany. A former aide to the long-dead German Fuhrer Hermann Goering leaked 11 briefcases filled with classified documents of the former Nazi regime to the Times of London. These revealed photos, transcripts, minutes, and other papers regarding the systematic destruction of the so-called "Sub-human races." These revelations were earth-shattering. It instantly destroyed any international sympathy or support for Germany, and killed a relief bill under deliberation in the Senate. It also increased calls for the new government to reinstate the former territories of France, Belgium, Poland, and Holland. Meanwhile, in the east, the Nazi remnants in Ostland were hunkering down for an invasion from all sides, war was brewing in the Caucasus, and Ukraine and Russia seemed poised to All eyes were on Europe..."
Transcript of a CBS interview with Gennady Burbulis, former aide, friend, biographer to former Russian President Yuri Gagarin.
Dan Rather: "What was Mr. Gagarin's reaction to the Fuller Report?
Burbulis: "The president, when he heard, the news, he was, um, very, openly distraught. I remember, he sat there for quite some time, and he, eventually told us to leave. The next day, when I, arrived, the doors were locked, and we were told the president was not to be disturbed."
Dan Rather: And I'd like to add, building off of what we talked about earlier, what was Mr. Gagarin's personal experience with the Nazis?
Burbulis: "I learned, through talking to him, years later, that his family was kept as slaves under a, German officer. He and his brother were sent to Poland, to do hard labour for the Nazi war effort, and I think, that shared experience with the other laborers, is why his bond with the Polish nation really flourished after the collapse of the Reich."
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Poland-Russia relations have a long and turbulent history, dating back to the Middle Ages. Over centuries, there have been numerous Polish-Russian Wars, with Poland once conquering Moscow and later Russia controlling much of Poland in the 19th and 20th centuries, leading to strained relations and multiple Polish attempts at re-acquiring independence. Polish–Russian relations ended after the German-Soviet invasion of Poland, and the subsequent Fourth Partition. Relations resumed after the fall of the Greater German Reich, and landmark progress was made when Soviet President Yuri Gagarin made a state visit to Poland in 2003. Both nations are part of the INTERCON alliance, and the Europe Free Trade Agreement.
Everyone who was alive back in those days remembers where they were when they heard the news. Some were on buses, cooking dinner. Then came the reports in the evening. Across the world, the news had emerged. The Reich had been defeated...
Excerpt from the essay "The End of the Cold War"
"The early 1990s were a hopeful time. The scourge of Nazism had been nearly eradicated from the face of the earth, and America and her allies once again dared to step foot upon the European continent. In her famous speech "Brave New World", just days after the defeat of the remaining Heer forces, President Patsy Mink emphasized the need to move forward together with all free nations of the world. This speech was largely overshadowed by the horrific news streaming out of Germany. A former aide to the long-dead German Fuhrer Hermann Goering leaked 11 briefcases filled with classified documents of the former Nazi regime to the Times of London. These revealed photos, transcripts, minutes, and other papers regarding the systematic destruction of the so-called "Sub-human races." These revelations were earth-shattering. It instantly destroyed any international sympathy or support for Germany, and killed a relief bill under deliberation in the Senate. It also increased calls for the new government to reinstate the former territories of France, Belgium, Poland, and Holland. Meanwhile, in the east, the Nazi remnants in Ostland were hunkering down for an invasion from all sides, war was brewing in the Caucasus, and Ukraine and Russia seemed poised to All eyes were on Europe..."
Transcript of a CBS interview with Gennady Burbulis, former aide, friend, biographer to former Russian President Yuri Gagarin.
Dan Rather: "What was Mr. Gagarin's reaction to the Fuller Report?
Burbulis: "The president, when he heard, the news, he was, um, very, openly distraught. I remember, he sat there for quite some time, and he, eventually told us to leave. The next day, when I, arrived, the doors were locked, and we were told the president was not to be disturbed."
Dan Rather: And I'd like to add, building off of what we talked about earlier, what was Mr. Gagarin's personal experience with the Nazis?
Burbulis: "I learned, through talking to him, years later, that his family was kept as slaves under a, German officer. He and his brother were sent to Poland, to do hard labour for the Nazi war effort, and I think, that shared experience with the other laborers, is why his bond with the Polish nation really flourished after the collapse of the Reich."
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Poland-Russia relations have a long and turbulent history, dating back to the Middle Ages. Over centuries, there have been numerous Polish-Russian Wars, with Poland once conquering Moscow and later Russia controlling much of Poland in the 19th and 20th centuries, leading to strained relations and multiple Polish attempts at re-acquiring independence. Polish–Russian relations ended after the German-Soviet invasion of Poland, and the subsequent Fourth Partition. Relations resumed after the fall of the Greater German Reich, and landmark progress was made when Soviet President Yuri Gagarin made a state visit to Poland in 2003. Both nations are part of the INTERCON alliance, and the Europe Free Trade Agreement.
mr morbius
Kicked
This is kinda funny to think about, as Skalski (who I assume would have been the President of Poland ITTL) was repressed by Communists durring OTL's People's Republic era.
War truly makes strange bedfellows lol
mr morbius
Kicked
Fun ways to divide Poland! (Pun Intended)
By Voievodship
By which Party got the majority of the Vote in 1994
By Majority Ethnicity (Red - German, Pink - Polish, Blue - Ukrainan)
By Population (Red has the same as Gray)
By Voievodship
By which Party got the majority of the Vote in 1994
By Majority Ethnicity (Red - German, Pink - Polish, Blue - Ukrainan)
By Population (Red has the same as Gray)
mr morbius
Kicked
BTW What is TTL's Polish Capital?
Warsaw was probably blasted to Kingdom Come, so:
Lwów : Too ,,Provincial" and too many Ukrainians (and later Germans). Same with Stanisławów.
Rzeszów - The growth of the city is probably butterflied ITTL, so not an option
Lublin - Probably the best bet, and that's not just becouse I'm a Lublinian - It had rich industry and had a small German Minority before WW2, so it can be ,,proof" that Poles and Germans can coexist without killing eachother (but not enough Germans to threaten any action, like with Lwów or Stanisławów)
Kraków - Historical Capital but too many Germans
Częstochowa - Important Religiously, possibly Germanized and too close to the border
Or maybe just build a New Capital (or rebuild Warsaw) but I'm not sure if Poland has the $$$ neccesary.
Warsaw was probably blasted to Kingdom Come, so:
Lwów : Too ,,Provincial" and too many Ukrainians (and later Germans). Same with Stanisławów.
Rzeszów - The growth of the city is probably butterflied ITTL, so not an option
Lublin - Probably the best bet, and that's not just becouse I'm a Lublinian - It had rich industry and had a small German Minority before WW2, so it can be ,,proof" that Poles and Germans can coexist without killing eachother (but not enough Germans to threaten any action, like with Lwów or Stanisławów)
Kraków - Historical Capital but too many Germans
Częstochowa - Important Religiously, possibly Germanized and too close to the border
Or maybe just build a New Capital (or rebuild Warsaw) but I'm not sure if Poland has the $$$ neccesary.
Probably just whatever small town with Polish majority. All traditional Polish cities are just destroyed so them just have pick what they can.
Poland's capital is Kielce. It was built up as a transit hub by the Germans, and largely escaped the chaos of the 80s.
mr morbius
Kicked
Bruh they still need a large urban center to house the Sejm, Senate, Supreme Court and whatnot - they can't just pick Sandomierz or fucking modliborzyce.
Plus most cities aside from Warsaw and Kraków still probably have a significant Polish Plurality / Majority, but most of them are either poor workers or lower middle class working as housekeepers or whatnot for German Settlers.
Satirical Political Parties
mr morbius
Kicked
I'll Drink to that! - A History of Satarical Political parties
Chapter III - Fall of the German Bloc
(excerpts)
,,The end of the Cold War brought new levels of Political Activity, unseen since the Interwar, to the European Continent. However, this initial burst of optimism soon gave way to dissapointment as young republics often found themselves either emboiled in chaotic political games or slid back into dictatorships, or at least oligarchies where the avarage Person's vote was worth less than the paper they threw into the Ballot Box. Thus, it is no suprise so many Parties arose and exploited this state of affairs - not to gain total power like Nazis or Communists, but to truly improve the standing of their fellow man - with laughs and giggles.
Polska Partia Wódki i Kiełbasy (Polish Party of Vodka and Sausages). The Orginal one, founded in the run-up to the 1994 Legistlative Elections. Their program was strangely liberal for 1994, working on reconciling with the East and mending the wounds between Poles and Polish-Germans. They failed to make it into the Sejm, but recived a respectable 11% of the Popular Vote, and eventualy got themselves a voice in Parlament when Senator Vladivlav Delmau defected from the German Party in mid 1995, resisting the recent shifts in leadership and claiming the newly elected chairman would bring ,,despotism and a peroid of renewed tension between the Poles and Germans". They mostly just stuck around for the rest of the 90's, eventualy reforming into the ,,Party of Brotherhood - Fatherland" (Partia Braterstwa - Ojcowizna), a centrist movement describing itself as a ,,counter to the monopoly of the German Party" which would find moderate success in 1998's Elections.
Party of Potato Salad and Bratwurst (Ostland) - Small political movement founded in Minsk in 1993 by a group of German students, representing the Settlers who disagreed with the country's minority rule policies. Banned and driven underground in 1995, most of the leadership arrested. A rump ,,Party Congress" eventualy decided to merge with the Free Belarus Movement in 1996.
I'd like some Freedom with theese Pancakes (Ukraine) - Left Wing Ukrainian Party, mostly focusing on workers and social issues like unemployment. Actually managed to get 2 MPs into the Supreme Rada but collapsed into infighting shortly after, with one MP becoming na Independent and the other (the founder) joining the Democratic Revival Party (a front for the still-illegal Communist Bolshevik party of Ukraine). The party effectivly dissolved shortly after, but some local offshoots still contested the next elections but failed to pick up much traction.
Party of Moderate Slavic Autonomy within the bounds of the Glorious Constitution of the Reich (Germany) - based on the old Czechoslovak ,,Party of Moderate Progress within bounds of the law" this movement was started by the few remaining Slavic (Polish, Czech and Sorb) Nationalists left within Germany. Sidelined by more moderate movements and supressed by the law shortly after. Some members fled to Poland and tried to restart it before giving up and joining the BBOR (Bezpartyjny Blok Odbudowy Rzeczypospolitej - Poland's ruling party from 1994 to 2006).
Chapter III - Fall of the German Bloc
(excerpts)
,,The end of the Cold War brought new levels of Political Activity, unseen since the Interwar, to the European Continent. However, this initial burst of optimism soon gave way to dissapointment as young republics often found themselves either emboiled in chaotic political games or slid back into dictatorships, or at least oligarchies where the avarage Person's vote was worth less than the paper they threw into the Ballot Box. Thus, it is no suprise so many Parties arose and exploited this state of affairs - not to gain total power like Nazis or Communists, but to truly improve the standing of their fellow man - with laughs and giggles.
Polska Partia Wódki i Kiełbasy (Polish Party of Vodka and Sausages). The Orginal one, founded in the run-up to the 1994 Legistlative Elections. Their program was strangely liberal for 1994, working on reconciling with the East and mending the wounds between Poles and Polish-Germans. They failed to make it into the Sejm, but recived a respectable 11% of the Popular Vote, and eventualy got themselves a voice in Parlament when Senator Vladivlav Delmau defected from the German Party in mid 1995, resisting the recent shifts in leadership and claiming the newly elected chairman would bring ,,despotism and a peroid of renewed tension between the Poles and Germans". They mostly just stuck around for the rest of the 90's, eventualy reforming into the ,,Party of Brotherhood - Fatherland" (Partia Braterstwa - Ojcowizna), a centrist movement describing itself as a ,,counter to the monopoly of the German Party" which would find moderate success in 1998's Elections.
Party of Potato Salad and Bratwurst (Ostland) - Small political movement founded in Minsk in 1993 by a group of German students, representing the Settlers who disagreed with the country's minority rule policies. Banned and driven underground in 1995, most of the leadership arrested. A rump ,,Party Congress" eventualy decided to merge with the Free Belarus Movement in 1996.
I'd like some Freedom with theese Pancakes (Ukraine) - Left Wing Ukrainian Party, mostly focusing on workers and social issues like unemployment. Actually managed to get 2 MPs into the Supreme Rada but collapsed into infighting shortly after, with one MP becoming na Independent and the other (the founder) joining the Democratic Revival Party (a front for the still-illegal Communist Bolshevik party of Ukraine). The party effectivly dissolved shortly after, but some local offshoots still contested the next elections but failed to pick up much traction.
Party of Moderate Slavic Autonomy within the bounds of the Glorious Constitution of the Reich (Germany) - based on the old Czechoslovak ,,Party of Moderate Progress within bounds of the law" this movement was started by the few remaining Slavic (Polish, Czech and Sorb) Nationalists left within Germany. Sidelined by more moderate movements and supressed by the law shortly after. Some members fled to Poland and tried to restart it before giving up and joining the BBOR (Bezpartyjny Blok Odbudowy Rzeczypospolitej - Poland's ruling party from 1994 to 2006).
Donald Tusk
mr morbius
Kicked
Another Wikibox (Tusk had Kashubian-German ancestry, and in OTL Poland jokes about him being a German are a dime a dozen)