What If These Two Warships Met In Combat
- Thread starter Driftless
- Start date
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Sekhmet_D
Kicked
Given that Iowa would prevail against Yamato, Montana would thoroughly outclass her.
I think the 1920 South Dakotas would make an impression as well. Especially if they got the 1940s modernization package with Radar, AA guns and a modified secondary battery. They actually had decent Torpedo defences.
The Kaga/Tosa would be a more apt counterpart for the 1920s!SoDaks and, vice versa, a more apt opponent for the Amagi would be the Lexingtons had they been built as battlecruisers.
Driftless
Donor
As you can see, my knowledge of the IJN, especially projects has limitations
How might a fight between BB-49 South Dakota and IJN Tosa have gone, say in 1930?
Let's go a bit modern.
Arleigh Burke-class guided missile destroyer vs. Kirov-class battle cruiser.
Binkhov did a video of it.
Arleigh Burke-class guided missile destroyer vs. Kirov-class battle cruiser.
Binkhov did a video of it.
Counting out lucky shots, I'd expect South Dakota to whip the Tosa most of the time. South Dakota has heavier armor and more guns. That (theoretically) should amount to more hits, with more chance of shrugging off the hits she does take. Tosa is a few knots faster, but unless she just wants to flee, I don't see that as being important.
Alright coming up with scenarios for my match ups:
A Takao vs a Zara: Gorizia is still in good condition come the armistice and is able to join the co-belligerent navy. Not being needed (or wanted) in the Mediterranean, the Allies allocate it and its to the Indian Ocean. In mid 1944 the ship encounters the heavy Cruiser Takao.
A Tegetthoff vs an Imperatritsa Mariya: Gallipoli works and the Russian Black Sea Fleet joins Entente forces in the Mediterranean guarding Otranto. A Russian battleship, Imperatritsa Ekaterina Velikaya, on an aggressive patrol into the Adriatic runs into the Prinz Eugene heading to reinforce Durazzo.
Rebuild vs Rebuild: Turkey joins the Axis following the fall of Greece allowing the Italian battleship Cavour to join Axis forces in the Black Sea where it engages the Parizhskaya Kommuna.
Clemenceau vs a Kiev: WW3 of course
A Capitani Romani vs a Mogador: faster elements of the French fleet in Toulon attempt a breakout rather than scuttle with the rest of the fleet. The fastest units of the RM are scrambled to intercept.
A Tribal vs a le Fantasque: There's some more skirmishes in the British liquidation of the French Navy in 1940.
While the SD has the advantage, I wouldn't say it's as clear as you suggest - Tosa's belt's thinner, but it's well sloped while SD's is vertical, so effective thickness will be a lot closer than numbers suggest, and Tosa has a smigin of an advantage at long range with a slightly thicker deck. The extra two guns certainly help, and they're good hole-punchers, but US bursting charges tended to be a bit on the light side and their rate of fire on the slow side. I also think you're underestimating the effect of Tosa's speed advantage - it probably isn't enough to cross the T, but it's certainly enough to allow the Tosa to decide if and how to fight. On the whole, advantage South Dakota, but not by a sufficient margin to consider a Tosa victory to require unusual luck.
If a fully functioning Belgrano gets within range and proves to be capable of actually firing her main armament anything like accurately it's bad news for Invincible. But how would Belgrano get within range? Theoretically has a 4-5 knot speed advantage, but realistically probably not as sprightly in '82 as she had been in her youthful incarnation as USS Phoenix.
Meanwhile, being bombed and strafed all through the approach by Harriers that probably can't sink her because they don't have AP bombs, but can mess up the upperworks real good. Did Sea Dart have a surface to surface mode in '82 and was it ever tested? Did Invincible have helos with ASW torpedoes, or were they all on the escorts? (Checks navywings.org.uk - yes, Invincible had 820 NAS with Sea Kings embarked) Light ASW torpedoes unlikely to sink or stop a big armoured surface ship, but might slow her down a bit? Finally, was Invincible carrying any last resort nukes on Corporate?
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If Sea Dart can see it, Sea Dart should be able to hit it, there would also be County Class around with Sea Slug which definitely had a SSM mode. The British 1000 lb bomb also came in a forged steel casing version which was effectively SAP so if any were aboard the carriers they should be able to penetrate the Belgrano's deck armour, anyway the superstructure would be utterly trashed and they likely would get shredded with 2" and 68mm rockets.
The scenario specifically said no escorts. The whole premise of one-to-one duels is obviously nonsense, just a bit of a laugh
But Sea Dart iirc has no active guidance so is effectively line of sight for surface targets. By the time Invincible's radar can see Belgrano, Belgrano is probably also within gun range. So it's a race between Belgrano's guns finding the range, and Invincible getting the first couple of missile salvos off
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How much damage can the sea Dart do on the Belgrano?
And realistically what would be the rate of fire of the sea dart ?
Can ASW torpedoes hit surface targets ? I thought they were programmed to go far deeper to actually have a chance of hitting surface ships.
Yeah, I wasn't sure about that. But it also occurs to me I'd forgotten than some of the helicopters had Sea Skua, as used in South Georgia. If you're right about torpedo depth then that might be more of a threat.
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