"What if Scotland did go it alone?" in the Daily Mail

Æsir

Daily Mail drivel.

I don't see why everyone thinks Scotland and Quebec will spontaneously collapse upon independence; what makes them so different from other small countries like Denmark, Norway, or Luxembourg? Why do Orkney, the Shetlands, and the Hebrides suddenly and inexplicably vote overwhelmingly to join Norway? Although the Hebrides don't seem to, rather it seems the author somehow thought Orkney and Shetland constitute the Hebrides. Why would Russia veto Scottish UN membership because the Tibetans, Palestinians, and Kurds don't have membership? As even the article admits, Scotland would be a state, and Tibet, Palestine, and Kurdistan would not be. I can't tell if that bit was a dig at the Scots, the Russians, both, or...

If they wanted to stay in NATO, why would they be prohibited? Iceland is in NATO and they spend 0.1% of their budget on defense and don't even have a standing army, Scotland would likely have a much more formidable military than that. The mention of Scotlan having no navy in particular seems patently untrue; hasn't Salmond said Scotland would definitely have a navy? Certainly I see no reason they wouldn't except through the rose-tinted glasses of right wing wet dream. And yes, they'll probably be able to fly aircraft, helicopters precisely off their frigates or what have you. :rolleyes:
 

jkarr

Æsir said:
Daily Mail drivel.

I don't see why everyone thinks Scotland and Quebec will spontaneously collapse upon independence; what makes them so different from other small countries like Denmark, Norway, or Luxembourg? Why do Orkney, the Shetlands, and the Hebrides suddenly and inexplicably vote overwhelmingly to join Norway? Although the Hebrides don't seem to, rather it seems the author somehow thought Orkney and Shetland constitute the Hebrides. Why would Russia veto Scottish UN membership because the Tibetans, Palestinians, and Kurds don't have membership? As even the article admits, Scotland would be a state, and Tibet, Palestine, and Kurdistan would not be. I can't tell if that bit was a dig at the Scots, the Russians, both, or...

If they wanted to stay in NATO, why would they be prohibited? Iceland is in NATO and they spend 0.1% of their budget on defense and don't even have a standing army, Scotland would likely have a much more formidable military than that. The mention of Scotlan having no navy in particular seems patently untrue; hasn't Salmond said Scotland would definitely have a navy? Certainly I see no reason they wouldn't except through the rose-tinted glasses of right wing wet dream. And yes, they'll probably be able to fly aircraft, helicopters precisely off their frigates or what have you. :rolleyes:
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i think its more in the current financial climate, theyed easily go abcnkrupt if they ahd to deal with everything on their own, without the rest of the uks help...itd make things alot more dificult...plus theyd have to reregister with teh un, eu and nato as a independent nation....iceland is still waiitng on getting in the eu alone as that takes time...the un theyd easily get in...not that it matters as the un has no power over anythign really
 

Yelnoc

Does anyone know, does Scotland general send more in taxes to London than they receive back or vice versa?
 

Lord Brisbane

worker said:
I guess this must move to "Chat".
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Why? I mean he pitches an alternate history scenario in the future that was published in the media, which is why I posted it here and not chat.

That and the "What if" in the title and article header sort of gives it away..
 

teg

As usual, the Daily Mail sabotages a perfectly good cause by bigoted scare-mongering. If Scotland has a future in the union, it should be for positive, not negative reasons.
 

Orville_third

Banned
I think Scotland should get out of NATO, after the wars NATO's dragged nations into. As for oil prices, they are no doubt likely to rise as world production keeps declining due to oil being a finite resource being used at a swift pace. (Not to mention instability in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Bahrain, Nigeria...) Perhaps the Tories may wish to seek Union with Scotland if the Iran war goes as anticipated?
 

Wanderlust

What would the rest of breakaway Scotland's non-EU foreign relations look like? Would they get exempted from the UK-US 'special relationship'?
 
The Kiat

The Kiat

If Scotland does leave the UK, are they going to elect a new monarch (maybe one of the Stuarts, if any are left) or are they going to be yet another Parliamentary Republic that has a President who doesn't do anything?
 

Æsir

The Kiat said:
If Scotland does leave the UK, are they going to elect a new monarch (maybe one of the Stuarts, if any are left) or are they going to be yet another Parliamentary Republic that has a President who doesn't do anything?
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Particularly if Queen Elizabeth is still alive at that time (And the consensus around here seems to be the current Windsors are immortal :p) wouldn't continuing to be a commonwealth realm be a possibility? Even when it was last independent, Scotland was in personal union with England, and I imagine the Queen is quite popular, certainly the two of my friends from the commonwealth I've had any political discussions with, despite being republicans, don't want to touch the monarchy while Elizabeth is still on the throne.

Alternatively, given what I hear of Salmond, maybe he sets up an American or South African patterned republic and runs for President. ;)
 

Neala

Yelnoc said:
Does anyone know, does Scotland general send more in taxes to London than they receive back or vice versa?
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Depends whose figures you're reading...

Seriously, the entire debate is drowning in hyperbolic speculation presented as facts that it's very difficult to draw out the truth

Assuming Scotland does vote for independence (a long shot at the moment but the Westminster government is doing their best to ensure it does) I see the following happening:

NATO: Scotland probably won't join but will copy Irish 'neutrality'

EU: Scotland will join. The question is when. The Scottish Government thinks that an independent Scotland would automatically be a member, Westminster thinks it wouldn't be. The situation is clear as mud. The entire EU will have to take a view

Currency: In the short term Scotland has 3 choices, keep Sterling, join the Euro or set up their own currency. My money is on keeping Sterling until joining the Euro

Military: Scotland will have a small navy primarily tasked with fisheries protection and SAR. Likewise Scotland will have a small, primarily helicopter based air force for SAR operations. The traditional regiments will be re-established.

Economy: The Scottish economy won't tank. There may however be a mild recession

Head of State: Scotland will either retain the Queen as head of state or become a republic
 

gigalocus

kellineil said:
Head of State: Scotland will either retain the Queen as head of state or become a republic
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Alex Salmond said in an interview shortly after their recent electoral success that he fully intends to keep Elizabeth as HoS should Scotland cede from the Union.
 

Bernard Woolley

Wow, if the Daily Heil wants Scotland to leave the Union this is the sort of story to do it. It's the sort of thing to turn the most hardened unionist into a nationalist.
 

Flubber

Banned
kellineil said:
EU: Scotland will join. The question is when. The Scottish Government thinks that an independent Scotland would automatically be a member, Westminster thinks it wouldn't be. The situation is clear as mud. The entire EU will have to take a view
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The Economist asked this question around Brussels the last time Scots independence talk flared up. The unanimous answer was that Scotland would have to go through the chapter program just like every other candidate.

It was also pointed out that other large EU members like Spain, France, Italy, and Germany have regional separatist movements of varying seriousness so those nations are not going to make it easy for any separatist movement in any other EU member.

Currency: In the short term Scotland has 3 choices, keep Sterling, join the Euro or set up their own currency. My money is on keeping Sterling until joining the Euro
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Given the well known problems facing the Euro Zone, you aren't going to see any new members any time soon.

As for keeping Sterling, Britain has a final say on that and Britain might be slightly peeved.

Scots independence is coming. It won't be as soon, as easy, or as catastrophic as some would claim however.
 
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