What if Marvel split the X-Men into a separate 'verse?

[Andrela]

What if when the X-Men were first developed, it was decide that a whole new race of super-powered mutants doesn't really fit with the rest of Marvel universe?

What if instead the X-Men was launched as a separate world, a sort of parallel earth to the main marvel universe?

How would the progress of marvel comics go with such an arrangement?

Obviously we wouldn't have Wolverine meeting Captain America, we wouldn't have Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver in the Avengers, but that's only scratching the surface.

What other consequences might come of this?

 

[Napoleonrules]

What if when the X-Men were first developed, it was decide that a whole new race of super-powered mutants doesn't really fit with the rest of Marvel universe?

What if instead the X-Men was launched as a separate world, a sort of parallel earth to the main marvel universe?

How would the progress of marvel comics go with such an arrangement?

Obviously we wouldn't have Wolverine meeting Captain America, we wouldn't have Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver in the Avengers, but that's only scratching the surface.

What other consequences might come of this?

Stan Lee was very strongly opposed to "fake cities" like DC's Metropolis and one of the draws for Marvel was that these were real cities like Spiderman in NY and the X-men in... Westchester County I believe? (Let's just say some place Upstate New York) and I don't see it being possible that Marvel would spin off the X-men like that. At the very least the X-men would be less popular. The draw for Marvel was that people could relate to the places and characters more. Kinda the reason Captain Marvel never took off was that whenever Marvell left science-related explanations and brought in more fantastical "Superman-like" powers with kinda implausible ideas of origin the readers were less interested. A boy getting bit by a radioactive spider, back then, was at least something the readers with their fears of radiation could understand and be like "yea, I see that", and I think it helps when you have a setting like Queens for his home and working in Manhattan, and later going to college.

 

[Emperor Julian]

Stan Lee was very strongly opposed to "fake cities" like DC's Metropolis and one of the draws for Marvel was that these were real cities like Spiderman in NY and the X-men in... Westchester County I believe? (Let's just say some place Upstate New York) and I don't see it being possible that Marvel would spin off the X-men like that. At the very least the X-men would be less popular. The draw for Marvel was that people could relate to the places and characters more. Kinda the reason Captain Marvel never took off was that whenever Marvell left science-related explanations and brought in more fantastical "Superman-like" powers with kinda implausible ideas of origin the readers were less interested. A boy getting bit by a radioactive spider, back then, was at least something the readers with their fears of radiation could understand and be like "yea, I see that", and I think it helps when you have a setting like Queens for his home and working in Manhattan, and later going to college.

This post isn't related to the concept; he doesn't mean having the X-Men be on a different planet than earth, he means not having them in the main Marvel crossover continuity. Like how the X-Men movies aren't part of the MCU.

 

[Scott_B]

I believe the endgame for the current comic arc will see the mutants leave Earth for a planet of their own; essentially Marvel segregating the characters they can't make films about away from the ones they can...

 

[John Farson]

Stan Lee was very strongly opposed to "fake cities" like DC's Metropolis and one of the draws for Marvel was that these were real cities like Spiderman in NY and the X-men in... Westchester County I believe? (Let's just say some place Upstate New York) and I don't see it being possible that Marvel would spin off the X-men like that. At the very least the X-men would be less popular. The draw for Marvel was that people could relate to the places and characters more. Kinda the reason Captain Marvel never took off was that whenever Marvell left science-related explanations and brought in more fantastical "Superman-like" powers with kinda implausible ideas of origin the readers were less interested. A boy getting bit by a radioactive spider, back then, was at least something the readers with their fears of radiation could understand and be like "yea, I see that", and I think it helps when you have a setting like Queens for his home and working in Manhattan, and later going to college.

Interesting. I always wondered why Marvel didn't really have fictional cities in its comics compared to DC, though it does have its share of fictional countries as well, such as Genosha, Latveria, Madripoor, Symkaria and Wakanda.

 

[THE OBSERVER]

Well they have separate film universes thanks to rights issues.

 

[eliphas8]

Honestly, that's a perfectly workable idea that will probably be good for both sides of the arrangement. The X Men never really fit into the greater marvel world anyway.

 

[Emperor Julian]

I believe the endgame for the current comic arc will see the mutants leave Earth for a planet of their own; essentially Marvel segregating the characters they can't make films about away from the ones they can...

At this rate they might as well just sell the X-Men to Fox for good.

 

[Mr_ Bondoc]

The problem with the arrangement is that the X-Men needed the other Marvel titles to provide context or relatable storylines. Just remember the original run of the X-Men ,just prior to The Uncanny X-Men actually featured the assassination of Professor Charles Xavier (later retconned as "faking his death"), mainly because the series had been cancelled.

 

[John Farson]

The problem with the arrangement is that the X-Men needed the other Marvel titles to provide context or relatable storylines. Just remember the original run of the X-Men ,just prior to The Uncanny X-Men actually featured the assassination of Professor Charles Xavier (later retconned as "faking his death"), mainly because the series had been cancelled.

And then there are elements in the Marvel universe that originally spring from the X-Men, such as the Shi'ar, the most powerful of the three main alien empires (the others being the Kree and the Skrull) in the Marvel universe. They couldn't be used in Guardians of the Galaxy because Fox held the film rights to them. I believe it is the same for the Skrull, since they're connected to Fantastic Four.

 

[Napoleonrules]

Isn't part of the reason they are starting Spiderman (again) and Fantastic Four movies over is so that they can put them in the Marvel (movie) universe? Whereas especially the Toby McGuire Spiderman movies were not?

 

[Look More Closely Later]

In Other Words?...

The problem with the arrangement is that the X-Men needed the other Marvel titles to provide context or relatable storylines. Just remember the original run of the X-Men ,just prior to The Uncanny X-Men actually featured the assassination of Professor Charles Xavier (later retconned as "faking his death"), mainly because the series had been cancelled.

In other words, they're not strong enough a line, at least at the start, to stand on their own in their own universe, and quickly get cancelled and (mostly) forgotten about?

 

[viewcode]

It's complicated...

Isn't part of the reason they are starting Spiderman (again) and Fantastic Four movies over is so that they can put them in the Marvel (movie) universe? Whereas especially the Toby McGuire Spiderman movies were not?

No. Sony (who own the rights to Spiderman) have to make a Spiderman movie every X years (X=5?) otherwise the rights revert to Marvel. Fox (who own the rights to X-Men, Fantastic Four and others) have a similar constraint. Examples of characters that have reverted to Marvel after disuse by other studios include Hulk (Universal did not do a sequel to the Ang Lee film) and Blade (New Line Cinema gave up after Blade:Trinity)

This is why the "The Amazing Spider-Man" (the Garfield Spiderman reboot) happened so soon after "Spiderman 3", and I think why "X-Men: First Class" was made.

Sony and Marvel have reached an understanding that Spiderman can be used in a Marvel Cinematic Universe film, tho' the rights still lie with Sony, not Marvel.

In summary:-

• Sony own Spiderman movie rights
• Fox own X-Men and FF movie rights (and the word "mutant", incidentally)
• Marvel own Avengers movie rights

Now tell me who owns the rights to Excalibur and/or the Authority and I'll be a happy bunny...

 

[viewcode]

What if when the X-Men were first developed, it was decide that a whole new race of super-powered mutants doesn't really fit with the rest of Marvel universe?

What if instead the X-Men was launched as a separate world, a sort of parallel earth to the main marvel universe?

How would the progress of marvel comics go with such an arrangement?

Obviously we wouldn't have Wolverine meeting Captain America, we wouldn't have Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver in the Avengers, but that's only scratching the surface.

What other consequences might come of this?

I'm not sure there would be any consequences at all. Marvel splits off universes willy-nilly, recombines them, universes merge, split, characters crossover, all canon is canon until it isn't. Recently for example the 616 universe met the Ultimate universe (albeit briefly) and all universes were then destroyed. Any time canon gets in the way of a story, a wibbly-wobbly ball of stuff appears, something happens, and the story proceeds anyway

So they'd be there in their own universe for a bit, then something would happen and then they wouldn't be. And history would proceed on its merry way

 

[Mr_ Bondoc]

In other words, they're not strong enough a line, at least at the start, to stand on their own in their own universe, and quickly get cancelled and (mostly) forgotten about?

Pretty much, also consider that Wolverine made his debut in The Incredible Hulk, not the X-men. To make things even more humiliating was the fact that into the 1970s, the X-Men were competing against the DC Comics title of Legion of Superheroes for attention.

 

[Mr_ Bondoc]

And then there are elements in the Marvel universe that originally spring from the X-Men, such as the Shi'ar, the most powerful of the three main alien empires (the others being the Kree and the Skrull) in the Marvel universe. They couldn't be used in Guardians of the Galaxy because Fox held the film rights to them. I believe it is the same for the Skrull, since they're connected to Fantastic Four.

To make matters worse, just consider how poorly Marvel has handled the following ATLs of the Squadron Supreme, New Universe, Ultraverse, Nth Man, Newuniversal, et al. Notice that most of these franchises lasted no more than 2 years before being cancelled.....

 

[Napoleonrules]

No. Sony (who own the rights to Spiderman) have to make a Spiderman movie every X years (X=5?) otherwise the rights revert to Marvel. Fox (who own the rights to X-Men, Fantastic Four and others) have a similar constraint. Examples of characters that have reverted to Marvel after disuse by other studios include Hulk (Universal did not do a sequel to the Ang Lee film) and Blade (New Line Cinema gave up after Blade:Trinity)

This is why the "The Amazing Spider-Man" (the Garfield Spiderman reboot) happened so soon after "Spiderman 3", and I think why "X-Men: First Class" was made.

Sony and Marvel have reached an understanding that Spiderman can be used in a Marvel Cinematic Universe film, tho' the rights still lie with Sony, not Marvel.

In summary:-

• Sony own Spiderman movie rights
• Fox own X-Men and FF movie rights (and the word "mutant", incidentally)
• Marvel own Avengers movie rights

Now tell me who owns the rights to Excalibur and/or the Authority and I'll be a happy bunny...

Some turtles would be very interested to know Fox owns the right to the word "mutant"

 

[The Hundredth Idiot]

Speaking of Captain Marvel...I could see Carol Danvers becoming a forgotten character ITTL. After Avengers #200, the whole Marcus thing could be swept under therug and Carol never hangs out with the X-Men or becomes Binary.

Wolverine is never an X-Man, since he started out as a Hulk villain. There goes Marvel's second biggest character.

 

[DG Valdron]

This post isn't related to the concept; he doesn't mean having the X-Men be on a different planet than earth, he means not having them in the main Marvel crossover continuity. Like how the X-Men movies aren't part of the MCU.

Back then, launching an alternate universe continuity simply wasn't in the cards.

DC pioneered the existence of an alternate universe for its old time heroes and then proceeded to aggressively do nothing much with it. It was only after literally decades that they thought "Hey, we have this whole other world we aren't using. Let's set a comic book in it."

Marvel didn't experiment with a separate continuity until the New Universe, and then the 2099 series, both of which flopped. Only their Ultimates relaunch saw anything that could be considered success.

So no, Stan wasn't going to go for it way back then.

 

[Mr_ Bondoc]

Speaking of Captain Marvel...I could see Carol Danvers becoming a forgotten character ITTL. After Avengers #200, the whole Marcus thing could be swept under therug and Carol never hangs out with the X-Men or becomes Binary.

Wolverine is never an X-Man, since he started out as a Hulk villain. There goes Marvel's second biggest character.

Also consider how Deadpool (aka "Merc with Mouth") actually was nothing like how he is portrayed. He was supposed to be Liefeld's "extreme" version of Wolverine, who was supposed to dark, brooding, and gritty.