What was Imperial Japan after in Burma and India? The logistical and manpower problems of seizing India make it a daunting task, so if not for the acquisition of India, what was the empire after?
What did the Japanese want in India? [WW2 Question]
- Thread starter DireSituation
- Start date
Closing the Burma Road and keeping it from being reopened by India based troops was a pretty significant Japanese war goal. While in practice, it turned out the China theater was pretty much a sideshow, the successful Japanese offensives in Burma did destroy U.S. plans to train and equip a sizeable Chinese Army up to U.S. standards which would have been a bitch for the horribly equipped IJA to handle, and significantly delayed the use of China as a base for strategic bombing against Japan, so much so that the superior alternative of bombing from the Marianas became available soon after.
Ouch, a US trained and equipped Chinese army... that would have been more than a 'bitch' for the IJA to handle. If that would have occured could we have seen China and the Soviets meeting in Manchuria? Yeah, I know, with the IJA taking Burma this was impossible... but think of it, a USA influenced post war China with a communist problem. The Cold War just got a lot more complicated!
Cook
Banned
China was definitely not a side show. The bulk of the Imperial Japanese Army was in China throughout the war.
Last edited:
I Blame Communism
Banned
I absolutely agree that the Chinese effort and sacrifice was gigantic and not remembered nearly enough, but I think what he was trying to say is that, while China was the graveyard of the IJA and the war only happened as it did because the bulk of its strength was in China, the actual course of the fighting in China wasn't really immediately relevant to the Pacific war. So long as the Chinese were fighting and keeping all those Japanese in their country, it didn't matter enormously whether particular battles were won or lost.
Of course, if America had been able to train and equip a new hard-core for the Chinese army, that could have changed rapidly...
Yes, but in practice, what could that Army have done if, magically, China surrendered anytime after Guadacanal? Having more divisions wouldn't do a thing to affect the Pacific War since Japan has no ability to move them or supply them, nor would it have any effect on the Burma/India campaign since logistics was tight enough there as it was. It does mean no Chinese B-29 bases, but those bases and the missions launched from them were practically worthless anyway, since large numbers of B-29s weren't available, nor were their bugs worked out until the Marianas had been secured, and trying a bombing offensive when fuel and munitions had to be airlifted over the hump was incredibly futile.
Yes, China tied up the bulk of the IJA, but it still was a sideshow since the IJA itself became irrelevant by the end of 1942.
Now if Japan failed in the Burma campaign, and the U.S. was able to open up a major supply line into China and form those 30 American equipped and trained divisions that it wanted, well, things might be a little different. Chinese bomber bases would no longer be a waste of time, and pushing the IJA into the sea to put bases right on the coast might be a useful alternative to much of the island hopping. Certainly the handful of understrength Chinese divisions that retreated into India and then retrained and reequipped by the U.S. proved extremely effective against Japan.
Last edited:
I should think that a Chinese surrender after Pearl Harbor, let alone Guadacanal, would actually hurt Japan in the long run.
As you wisely note, Japan is not going to be able to first move, then supply, even small numbers of additional forces to Burma, the DEI, the Philippines, or elsewhere in the Pacific. Even the reassignment of air assets, which can move themselves, is going to be severely constrained by Japan's (in)ability to supply those assets once they've relocated.
The only portion of the Japanese empire that will see relatively substantial reinforcements will be Manchuria and even then the numbers involved will be determined more by the needs for garrisons in China more than the need for reinforcements in northeast Asia against any potential future Soviet attack.
While Japan will reap little in the way of a peace bonus from end of combat in China, the Allies will receive substantial gains when the fantastically wasteful "Over the Hump" logistic effort ceases. For example, B-29s flying from India and Australia, where they can be supplied far more easily, can operate against targets in Burma/Malaysia and the DEI respectively.
Cook
Banned
How about actually reading something about the Pacific War before coming out with tripe like this.
Try looking into the events in New Guinea, Guadalcanal, Philippine Islands, Okinawa , Saipan and Iwo Jima and the Mariana Islands in general.
How about reading a bit about logistics before coming out with tripe about how additional divisions could affect the island hopping campaign? What do you know, Japan had troops starving during part or all of each and every one of the battles you mention as it was. I guess you'll be kind enough to inform me how winning in China would magic up more transports, freighters, and destroyers for Japan.
Cook
Banned
You want to raise the subject of logistics when you came out with the fantasy of the US equipping a sizable Chinese Army to the same level as the U.S. Army?
Yes, and if you had done any reading on logistics you'd have known why the U.S. equipping a sizeable Chinese Army was impossible OTL, and why if not perhaps the most likely eventuality, it would not be impossible if Japan had outright failed in Burma. The U.S. did in fact equip 3 Chinese divisions in India, perhaps not entirely up to U.S. standards, but close enough, and they did sterling work in the Burma campaign.
I do like how you have no counter at all to the logistical impossibility of making use of any divisions freed up by successfully (somehow) concluding the Japanese adventure in China, and have to resort to changing the subject.
Still trying to change the subject I see. I take it you have conceded your argument made in post 11?
Markus
Banned
So what? The IJA was not anywhere near the western level either and could not destroy the NRA, which was equipped and supplied just horribly. Improve that a bit and numbers would have done the rest.
Cook
Banned
China was the focus of the Imperial Japanese Army throughout the war. The bulk of the Army, equipment and logistics went there. The South East Asia and Pacific received nowhere near as much and still resulted in an appalling struggle to, firstly halt and then turn back the tide of the war.
Your insistence that China was merely a sideshow is ridiculous. Had the Japanese Army be able to redirect its resources to the Pacific, they’d have been able to extend their grip further and the butcher’s bill for the Allies would have been far higher.
archaeogeek
Banned
The bulk of Japanese logistics went to the IJN, not to the IJA, on pretty much every front.
And your insistence that the IJA winning in China will allow them to suddenly pull transports and destroyers out of their ass is beyond ridiculous. Japanese units in China were almost entirely supported by mainland resources, but now the IJN will have no trouble making up the lack in completely resource empty Pacific islands thousands of kilometers away right? Troops definitely weren't already starving all over the Pacific starting 1943.
And if there's any lack on the part of the Navy, the Army can surely make up for it with all the river barges and rolling stock it no longer needs to support operations in China. All they need is to finish that railway between Honshu and Rabaul and put the finishing touches on their weather control machine so the barges don't get overturned transitting thousands of kilometers of open ocean. And even if that somehow doesn't pan out, just stuff more troops onto the islands. Once they run out of food even faster than OTL because of greater numbers, they can just subsist on cannibalism. Even if half survive by eating the other half, you still end up with more men facing the U.S. than OTL, right? This strategy is truly flawless.
Last edited: