A Mali Empire where they don’t end up turning into a wank and end up colonizing Brazil
What civilization or nation deserves to have its own TL?
- Thread starter Acamapichtli
- Start date
-
- Tags
- alternate history
Perhaps the Tongan "Empire"? With it at least maintaining its position beyond 1500 (rather than starting to decline) so when the Europeans reach that part of the Pacific in the early 17th C some form of wider unified society across a number of island groups?
Well in mine they were wanked but they didnt get any new world colonies
Then again nobody did
Seeing even small timelines on independent Hispano - Neomexicano, Californio, and Tejano - states would be interesting, since at least Francophone (Creole/Cajun alike) Louisiana timelines get some attention at least.
Or we could go with the other important Indian maritime culture that nobody ever seems to talk about, Gujarat! Seriously did you know Vasco De Gama was guided on his famous voyage by sailors from the place? Its also really interesting as not only is it one of the strongholds of the Zoroastrian Parsi Community but also Jainism and I can’t remember the last time any even brought up that religion up in alt history.
Last edited:
Actually the northern Yuan especially, even in games like EU4 they just call it “Mongolia” despite it being the last vestiges of the Great Yuan that lasted for hundreds of years after being expelled from China
Its my signature TL, Flower of Alys
The chapter that talks about Mali is the third one, Atlantis
It goes over the fate Morocco, them and Iceland
without forgetting also that the crusaders who occupied the Rhomania, maintained as much as possible the habits and customs of the imperial court and administration in Constantinople and at a local level, a mixed class was seen forming from marriages between Latins and "Greeks" ( the Gasmoulis ) with very interesting future implications, Boniface of Monferrato himself could count on a very large network of local ties, previously built by his family members ( just remember that Andronicus was not the only pretender to the imperial purple in 1181, his niece Maria was also there and her husband Ranieri ( Boniface's older brother ) who was killed immediately after the arrival of Andronicus in the city, the same Latin empire had several times had the possibility of getting rid of an enemy on its borders ( in particular towards the Epirus ) but only its chronic shortage of manpower prevented its success ( a problem that gripped any existing Crusader state, as well as their fragmentation or the political chaos caused by the continuous changes in government, especially after the death of Henry of Flanders ), finally the Komnenos themselves and the subsequent Paleologos were increasingly introducing traditions of "Frankish" origin, so much so that in some cases they ended up admiring the customs ( see Manuel who in his father's intentions was to become a sort of prince of Outremer ) or of Theodore I who he ended up inheriting Monferrato and after a few years he completely assimilated that when he returned to visit his father Andronicus II in Constantinople, he was considered by everyone to have become 100% Latin
Last edited:
without forgetting also the other states derived from the 4th Crusade, such as the Duchies of Athens and Achaea ( which lasted for another 200 years, remaining important players in Greek politics, in particular Achaea, which had developed the largest number of supporters among its Rhomanoi population, leading to the creation of a very interesting local identity )
On that note, one potential alternate history I could see is a "No Ottomans" scenario in which a rump Rhomania in Thrace/Macedonia/Western Anatolia and the aforementioned Frankokratia Remnants develop separate national identities in which Rhomania maintains a Rhomaioi identity while something like the revival of Hellenic identity in modern Greece IOTL occurs in the duchies you mentioned.
well in reality a similar thing was really happening in Otl, if we consider the distrust between Frankokratic states and Byzantine / Ottoman Constantinople, where the former pushed for the formation of a regionalistic identity towards the latter ( who pushed to maintain the Rhomanoi identity ) see the fight between the brothers of Constantine XI ( who had managed to gain the trust of both factions in Morea ) , after his death, where Thomas led the Francophile party while Demetrius was supported by the Ottomans as he was a staunch Rhomanoi and was considered anti-Unionist and anti-Latin, or even the ease with which the inhabitants of the peninsula welcomed any help against the Ottomans ( whether it came from the Habsburgs, the Papacy and above all Venice, which governed with a lot of local support in the region ) finally, it must also be considered that the Crusades States that remained in Greece, in that period, did everything they could to welcome the greatest number of dissidents or particular populations ( 1 ) opposed to the centralizing policies coming from the Queen of the cities, to further strengthen their ranks ( in one scenario where the Morea were to survive beyond 1461, I am sure it would have tried to attract many veterans of the campaigns of Skanderbeg, Vlad III and also refugees from Trebizond and other areas of the Balkans )
1 ) see in particular the Aromanian and Wallachian minorities, who were seen as a fifth column of Bulgaria ( in the Byzantium of the Palaiologos )
Last edited:
I completely agree with this, there are so many unexplored scenarios involving the Mongol Empire and its successors, one in particular has been tickling my mind for a while, excuse me but I would like to quote myself from an old comment of mine :
in OTL there were at least one 10 Mongol invasions in Europe ( of which the most important were those of 1241 and 1284 ) in this period many states were completely devastated or erased from the geographical maps of the time (I'm thinking of many of the minor principalities of Kievas Rus) while the more fortunate states managed to strengthen themselves by taking advantage of the chaos created by the Mongols, technically Subutai and Batu also wanted to advance into Germany ( there were small clashes in Vienna and Meissen, as well as expeditions of advance scouting along the Rhine and in the Po Valley ) considering how chaotic politics already was in the HRE at the time ( in particular it must be considered that we are in the period of the revolt of Henry VII and the forthcoming deposition of Federico II ), one could imagine 3 possible scenarios : the first is a devastating Mongol incursion into the region which would heavily damage Fredy's adversaries, as well as the most important princes and with the largest territories in Germany ( including unfortunately also Bohemia and Austria, allies of the Stupor Mundi ) but in the long run this incursion will die out because the Mongols are far from their provisional "local" nucleus and inevitably they would not have the men to continue, leaving Germany ( and perhaps also Northern Italy ) bent and easily preyed on by of Federico and his allies ( those who survived, I'm also thinking of Lorraine ) who will exploit the situation to rebuild a new status in the empire, to their advantage
my second idea is that we could see Batu or one of his descendants proclaim himself as Emperor / Khan of the Romans, in case the Mongol incursions could continue and go deeper into the region ( not so absurd, a Mongol vanguard arrived as far as Paris and the the first Magyars managed to extend their raids even beyond the Pyrenees ) in particular if they had the Pannonian basin / Northern European prairie as their headquarters, this scenario would be even more possible if Rome ( which in OTL had a strong diplomacy with the Mongol court ) decided to negotiate to stop/calm down the devastation with the Khan, legitimizing his conquests in some way, also forcing him to use the rules of European involvement in war and diplomatic matters ( as much as I adore Freddy, and would immediately sign up for a more successful reign of his, this scenario is the one that currently intrigues me the most ) it would be one of those events so absurd as to be real ( considering that in Otl his cousins and nephews in China and Persia did the same thing, it seems quite obvious to me that a Khan predominantly European, use the most prestigious title in the region... Considered the speed with which this European dynasty of the Genghisids would have assimilated quite quickly into Latin culture, also providing one more excuse ( of a religious nature ) to foment the clash with the cousins of the Il- Khanate and the Golden Horde, who expected the Mongol Crusaders ?🤣😂)
finally there is the last scenario which is also the least interesting ( from my point of view ) i.e. that we will see a situation similar to the development of the "Russian" potentates occur in the HRE, with a sort of German Muscovy which taking advantage of the politics of the Khans, make its way to be the main political player at the regional level, eventually gaining a clear position of supremacy over the rest of the German world and eventually gaining the royal / imperial title as well
something like this would already be enormously interesting to read or develop
Last edited:
