The Whale has Wings

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Airborne Butterflies

If Operation Mercury is a complete cluster F*** then the development of Britsh (and maybe American) airborne doctrine could be altered. During 1941 it seems that the conceptual use of airborne troops went from small unit individual actions to large drops to achieve "real" battlefield tactical/strategic objectives. ( Origins of British Airborne Forces )

So that D-Day style assault has to be politically fought harder for. On the plus side it may negate "A bridge too far" with senior commanders realising that airborne troops need back up fast to hold onto gains made with a drop and pushing hard to join with the "airhead"
 
Operation Rheinübung. Hmm. I predict that this will involve the British code breakers, air, surface and subsurface patrols entirely missing the sailing of the German fleet, allowing the German carrier which has never been in combat before to launch a perfect air attack on the complacent and undefended Scarpa Flow anchorage, leading to the complete and utter destruction of the Home Fleet. This will allow the might of the German Army, which has cleverly been hiding its preparations for this follow up operation by pretending to be building up against Russia in the East, to launch a surprise cross-channel invasion and cause the British to surrender by the end of April. Anything less successful would, of course, be a Britwank.

If Astrodragon instead choose to write something which involved the sinking of Germany’s only remaining major surface vessels for minimal losses to the RN, well, that could be quite interesting to read, as well ;)
 
I'd say, since that's the sort of deck armor they're putting on battleships- the Iowas have a 1.5" weather deck, ~5" main armored deck on 1.5" backing (the South Dakota's have a deck that's up to .3" thicker but 3/4" backing) & a 5/8" splinter deck- exactly how big is that ship going to be?

Yes, the Audacious class is as well protected as a BB from air attack, below the hangar.

The first ship will come in at around 33,000 tons (she was supposed to be 32k, but grew a bit as they added some stuff due to early war experience. That makes her about 30% bigger than an Illustrious class

Her airgroup was intended to be 36 TBR, 24 DB and 24 F (84), but the planes are a bit bigger now than when they originally laid her out, and they also see the need for more fighters.
So her initial airgroup will be 36TBR (Spearfish), 18 DB (Cormorant) and 24F (Sea Eagle), a total of 78 planes. She can squeese in a few more, but this allows easier maintenance. With a deck park she is intended to carryup to 42 TBR, 24 DB and 36F (102) (there are issues fitting the crews in with this many planes, as well as aviation fuel and ordnance). Its likely (in view of the way they keep needing more fighters) that she will deploy with 30 Sea Eagles (parking 3 on the elevators), as in active service there are always planes in the air during the day, or ready on deck at night (not a true deck park, just the ready planes). The extra fighters are seen as more useful that extra DB, as the Sea Eagle can carry bombs if needed, although its not a true DB its not so bad against a merchant ship. There is also the issue of actually spotting a strike; she has more deck space than an Illustrious, so can handle a bit over 30 planes; this fits in with either a single or double strike from a load of 80-ish planes.

Shes a bit heavier than an Essex, shorter and fatter :) Intended speed is about 32kt, the requirement is for a 'true' 30kt (in normal displacement, somewhat dirty). And unlike an Essex she can survive bomb hits...:)
 
I might have missed it earlier, but talking of carrier designs. Colin Mitchell patented the slotted tube steam catapult design in 1938, but due to the lack of funding for aircraft development and because all current and planned FAA aircraft didn't require it, no further development occurred until after the war.

Here, the situation was quite different. FAA aircraft are more modern and heavier, and next generation designs are going to weigh even more. Would there be more interesting in developing this technology here, and perhaps even designing the next generation carriers so that in future they can easily be modified to take them. With such a catapult you might even be able to launch a Mosquito from a carrier.
 
With British forces seemingly able to withdraw earlier - in good order - might it mean that S/L 'Pat' Pattle (said by many to be the RAF's leading Ace) - lives to fight another day!?
 
Operation Rheinübung. Hmm. I predict that this will involve the British code breakers, air, surface and subsurface patrols entirely missing the sailing of the German fleet, allowing the German carrier which has never been in combat before to launch a perfect air attack on the complacent and undefended Scarpa Flow anchorage, leading to the complete and utter destruction of the Home Fleet. This will allow the might of the German Army, which has cleverly been hiding its preparations for this follow up operation by pretending to be building up against Russia in the East, to launch a surprise cross-channel invasion and cause the British to surrender by the end of April. Anything less successful would, of course, be a Britwank.

If Astrodragon instead choose to write something which involved the sinking of Germany’s only remaining major surface vessels for minimal losses to the RN, well, that could be quite interesting to read, as well ;)

Yeah we all loled.

The thing is, mentioning of Unternehmen Merkur is a nice reminder that OTL had Germans do such insane Hail Mary runs from '39 to '41 and near constantly win. Even initial stages of Barbarossa were a victory beyond belief where millions of Red Army troops were put out of action. And all the Romel's havoc in Africa until late '42...

OFC in hindsight its obvious that big part of those huge Axis gambles working was Allies having pretty much a IRL "idiot ball" in their hands until mid '42. OTL performance of Germans in initial years of war is amazing, its a insane stroke of luck that stretched for years... once it unavoidable turned... well we all know how it went from there.

What my rambling is trying to say. Germans had so much extreme luck in first years of war that creating a Nazi Victory ATL where "only" that luck continues to hold for several more years is a scenario of much smaller probability than one where in those "happy years" (for sie Germans) Allies "wake up" before schedule and start not failing as much.

So even briefer. Plausibility of Allies doing much better in '39 to '42 period is much greater than Axis doing much better in '43 to '45 period.
 
Yeah we all loled.

The thing is, mentioning of Unternehmen Merkur is a nice reminder that OTL had Germans do such insane Hail Mary runs from '39 to '41 and near constantly win. Even initial stages of Barbarossa were a victory beyond belief where millions of Red Army troops were put out of action. And all the Romel's havoc in Africa until late '42...

OFC in hindsight its obvious that big part of those huge Axis gambles working was Allies having pretty much a IRL "idiot ball" in their hands until mid '42. OTL performance of Germans in initial years of war is amazing, its a insane stroke of luck that stretched for years... once it unavoidable turned... well we all know how it went from there.

What my rambling is trying to say. Germans had so much extreme luck in first years of war that creating a Nazi Victory ATL where "only" that luck continues to hold for several more years is a scenario of much smaller probability than one where in those "happy years" (for sie Germans) Allies "wake up" before schedule and start not failing as much.

So even briefer. Plausibility of Allies doing much better in '39 to '42 period is much greater than Axis doing much better in '43 to '45 period.

Indeed, its surprising what some small changes will do.
Of course, the British dont see it that way... they've lost France, Norway, Greece - basically any time they run into the German Army, shipping losses are terrible (lower than OTL, but they dont know that), similarly air attacks have been damaging..
The only bright points have been the damage to the Axis navies and O'Connel in Cyrenaica. From their pov, everything else is awful.
And Barbarossa is going to make them feel even worse.

But some of the little differences are starting to have leverage - like the Free French doing better, lower convoy losses putting less pressure on the UK, the ability to do more in the air in the Med. The germans have still won all the big gambles, but some of the smaller, more marginal ones are going the other way.
 
Operation Rheinübung. Hmm. I predict that this will involve the British code breakers, air, surface and subsurface patrols entirely missing the sailing of the German fleet, allowing the German carrier which has never been in combat before to launch a perfect air attack on the complacent and undefended Scarpa Flow anchorage, leading to the complete and utter destruction of the Home Fleet. This will allow the might of the German Army, which has cleverly been hiding its preparations for this follow up operation by pretending to be building up against Russia in the East, to launch a surprise cross-channel invasion and cause the British to surrender by the end of April. Anything less successful would, of course, be a Britwank.

I am making sure the RAF is doing daily overflights of the Frisian Islands just in case....:p:D
 
Operation Rheinübung

Postwar opinion is divided on this operation. Some see it as the best attempt of the outnumbered German Navy to inflict considerable damage on the Royal Navy and the British convoy system; others consider it a 'Death-Ride' in keeping with the Nazi mentality.

The basics of the operation itself were simple. The KM had four heavy surface units available; the battleships Bismark and Scharnhorst, the heavy cruiser Prinz Eugen and the carrier Graf Zeppelin. There were a number of destroyers that would accompany the heavy ships for the first part of the operation, but these short ranged craft would then return to Norway. The preparations for the operation itself had been carried out in great secrecy; the heavy units had slipped out of port and up the coast of Norway as far as Bergen under cover of cloud and poor weather, and had in fact managed to concentrate in the fjord without having been spotted by the RAF.

Sadly, all that careful forethought was wasted. Bletchly Park had given the Admiralty news that German heavy ships were heading up the Norwegian coast, and confirmation that the Bismark and Prinz Eugen at least were involved was confirmed by a member of the Norwegian resistance. As a result, although they didn't all go to sea, the units of the Home Fleet were put at four hours readiness for steam, the Prince of Wales was hurried out of her hull cleaning in dry dock, and all boiler cleaning cancelled. The old battleships Barham and Ramilles were ordered to join two of the most valuable northern convoys; their slow speed made them unlikely to be useful in a chase, while putting them in front of a potential breakout meant they might be able to intercept.

The main force of the Home Fleet was the fleet carriers Illustrious and Formidable, the light carrier Colossus, the battleships KGV, Prince of Wales, Nelson and Rodney, and the battlecruiser Hood. A number of cruisers were also available. Coastal command was also put on alert, both to try and keep the German ships under surveillance in Norway, and then to hopefully track and attack them if they ventured out. In addition two other carriers were put on readiness to join the Home Fleet; the light carrier HMS Ocean, currently at Liverpool having just escorted in a convoy, and HMS Glorious, just finishing working up after a recent refit.

The aims of the operation was to cause as much damage and disruption to the British convoys as possible, then slip back home. The fleet would then be a constant threat to a repeat foray, and would require the Royal Navy to keep heavy units tied up in Scapa Flow as a response. This would then make them vulnerable to a heavy air raid on the base itself. The start of the operation would be the breakout from Norway. The ships would be covered for the first part of their trip by land-based Luftwaffe fighters, allowing them to proceed without having to worry about the Graf Zeppelin flying off aircraft. As this was going on, high level Luftwaffe reconnaissance planes would check Scapa Flow. If the British Home Fleet was still an anchor, then the Graf Zeppelin would conduct an air strike on the base (aided by Norwegian based bombers) as a distraction, and would then retreat to Norway, allowing the surface units to slip past to the north before the British discovered them. If the Home Fleet heavy units were at sea (especially the carriers), then the Graf Zeppelin would accompany the surface force to provide air cover and a strike capability against the Royal Navy. While the carrier could only launch a small strike, it was thought this would be adequate against the biggest threat to the breakout, patrolling Royal Navy cruisers.

While the Luftwaffe kept up a constant air patrol over the fjord to discourage the RAF, a reconnaissance Whirlwind managed to get over the ships and get a set of photographs. The results concerned the Royal Navy; they had assumed this was one or two of the German heavy ships aiming to slip out to raid, not all four. The disposition of the Home Fleet was therefore split into four parts.

First, the carrier Glorious and the cruisers Norfolk and Suffolk along with a number of destroyers would cover the Denmark straight between Iceland and the Greenland ice barrier, the cruisers deployed to the east of the carrier. Second, the carrier Colossus and her escorts would cover a light cruiser force consisting of Galatea, Aurora, Kenya and Neptune between Scotland and the Faroes. The most likely route between the Orkneys and Iceland would be covered by the fleet carriers Illustrious and Formidable with the battleships Prince of Wales and KGV, and the battlecruiser Hood. This force could also reinforce either the northern or southern force if the Germans used one of those routes. Finally the battleships Nelson and Rodney would remain at Scapa to block the escape route. They would be joined by the light carrier Ocean as soon as she arrived (she was currently escorting a convoy). The biggest worry was the weather - poor weather, not uncommon at this time of year, could allow the German force to slip past, or catch one of the light carriers by surprise. The risk was, it was felt, worth taking, as such a powerful force could not be allowed to break free into the Atlantic convoys.

In addition to the naval forces, Coastal Command was also put on alert and asked to add its reconnaissance planes to the search north of Scotland, In particular the AS-radar equipped Stirlings. There was only a small number of these available, and so far they had been kept busy on the convoy routes looking for and keeping down submarines, but it was hopes their range and radar would allow them to spot the raiding force even in bad weather. For the next few days the convoys would have to take the risk of less air cover. While the chances of them being intercepted by the German carrier was of course a risk (the RN knew, from its own experience of intercepting Condors, how vulnerable a large plane could be to fighters), the hope was that the radar would allow discovery at sufficient range to keep safely back and in range of cloud cover. Finally a squadron of SeaLance torpedo planes, normally based in East Anglia in case of an attempted invasion, were put on alert to move to Scotland at short notice to provide a strike capability off Scotland in case the German fleet attempted to slip by closer to land.

At 2100 on the 25th April, the rattle of heavy anchor chains echoed around the peace of Bergen fjord. Operation Rheinübung was finally under way.

Admiral Lutjens fleet had first headed north towards Trondheim. Reports from the Luftwaffe had indicated that the Home Fleet seemed to not be in Scapa, so he intended to keep his carrier with him. Shortly before dawn the destroyers accompanying the force were detached to Trondheim, having insufficient range to accompany the heavy ships. He intended to take the ships out through the Denmark Straight, rather than through the Iceland/Faeroes gap, as he felt this would be too heavily patrolled by British aircraft. By midnight on the 26th the ships had turned west to head directly for the Straight.

Meanwhile the British had confirmation that the force had sailed; reconnaissance over the fjord had shown the absence of the heavy ships, and it was assumed that a breakout into the convoy lanes was intended. However until more was known about what route the German fleet would take, Admiral Tovey decided there was no reason to change the disposition of his ships. The ships had left the fjord before a strike on them could be arranged; the poor weather in Norway had delayed the chance until it was too late. He had therefore moved his fleet carriers to cover the capital ships, and be ready to move north or south if the German fleet didn't take the central passage into the Atlantic. In case the Germans slipped past them in bad weather, Force H was ordered to leave Gibraltar and sail noth to take up a blocking position.

The weather on the 27th was poor, and as the British ships took up station only the ASV-equipped planes were of any use, and searches from the fleet carriers and Coastal Command found nothing. The situation was of course the same for the Germans; with no ASV equipped planes, they were operating without any aerial reconnaissance at all. The German ships were not in fact spotted until late in the evening, and not by an aircraft but by the radar of HMS Suffolk, on patrol in the Denmark straight. The large echoes on the radar set could hardly be anything other than the German force that was expected, and the cruiser radioed a sighting report even as she retired westward, keeping the enemy under contact by radar.

The cruiser had also been spotted by the German radar, and although the one, smaller echo could have been anything, the fact that it was retreating at 27 knots to keep the distance between them indicated a warship of some sort. Meanwhile Coastal Command on Iceland were asked to send out a radar-equipped Stirling to confirm the sighting; this was done at 0100, and an hour later a confirmation was received. Four large echoes (assumed to be capital ships) heaving west out of the Denmark Straight.
While a night strike from the nearest carrier, HMS Glorious, was a possibility, the poor weather made the attempt difficult. With the enemy now under observation, Tovey decided to have the carrier retire west to keep the range open (she was around 120 miles from the German fleet), in preparation for a dawn strike, when the weather might not be better but at least they would have daylight.

Lutjens had no night strike capability at all (the planes carried by the Graf Zeppelin were modified Me109 fighters and Ju87 dive bombers), so the only option seemed to be to cripple or sink the cruiser tracking them at first light, and then search for any other ships in front of him. If the cruiser was alone, he still felt he had a good chance of breaking out before other ships could intercept his force.

The strike from HMS Glorious was spotted on deck well before dawn on the 28th. The Admiralty was still uncertain as to the number of planes that the German carrier could handle. Intelligence had given the ship's displacement at around 25,000 tons, about the same as a British fleet carrier. They estimated she could be carrying up to 60 - 80 planes, probably split evenly between dive bombers and fighters (no sign had ever been found of a carrier-operable torpedo plane). Glorious was carrying 18 TBR, 18 DB and 20 fighters. The fleet carriers and the battleships had altered course to the north during the night, but they would not be in a position to send off a strike until the afternoon. The decision was made to have Glorious attack the carrier; without air support it would be relatively easy to hunt down the rest of the German force. With luck, Glorious would hit the carrier before she got her own strike off.

[note: to keep things sane, I will finish this operation before going back a few days and carrying on in the Med, otherwise its just going to get too confusing]
 

Garrison

Donor
Indeed, its surprising what some small changes will do.
Of course, the British dont see it that way... they've lost France, Norway, Greece - basically any time they run into the German Army, shipping losses are terrible (lower than OTL, but they dont know that), similarly air attacks have been damaging..
The only bright points have been the damage to the Axis navies and O'Connel in Cyrenaica. From their pov, everything else is awful.
And Barbarossa is going to make them feel even worse.

But some of the little differences are starting to have leverage - like the Free French doing better, lower convoy losses putting less pressure on the UK, the ability to do more in the air in the Med. The germans have still won all the big gambles, but some of the smaller, more marginal ones are going the other way.

And of course conversely the Germans aren't aware how badly things are really going, even if Algeria/Tunisia and Crete go badly that's probably going to be ignored in the first rush of victories in Barbarossa, I certainly don't think Rheinbung is going to to affect their thinking however it turns out.

Oh and reading the events of the OTL Rheinbung I really do not see this ending happily for the Kriegsmarine ITTL but if you want to win friends and influence people you might want to spare one particular British ship from its OTL fate. :)

ETA: Well Astrodragon posted the first part of the actual battle while I was writing the above but I feel confident in sticking to my 'will end badly for the Kriegsmarine' prediction. :)
 
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perfectgeneral

Donor
Monthly Donor
http://www.pegasusarchive.org/frames.htm
The Royal Air Force had yet to amass a sufficient quantity or quality of aircraft to mount a major bombing campaign against Germany, whilst the Royal Navy, the strongest arm that Britain possessed in 1940, was unlikely to tempt the enemy fleet to battle after inflicting a serious defeat upon them during the Norwegian campaign. Churchill, therefore, considered the possibility of raids by elite bands of soldiers, and on the 4th June 1940, he wrote to his Chief of Staff, General Ismay:
"We should immediately set to work to organise self-contained, thoroughly equipped raiding units. Enterprises must be prepared with specially trained troops of the hunter class who can develop a reign of terror down the enemy coasts. I look to the joint Chiefs of Staff to propose measures for vigorous enterprise and ceaseless offensive against the whole German-occupied coastline, leaving a trail of German corpses behind them."
With aircraft carriers given (or taking) a higher profile in TTL, could Churchill look to them to increase the reach of para/coastal raiding? Westland Lysanders launched at sea to reach coasts/targets out of land based aircraft range? Hard to imagine where a Lysander would have a greater range than a land based heavy bomber or transport, but there must be places (Pacific Theatre)? They certainly offer fast extraction. I'm thinking of a Commando Carrier before helicopters come into use.

Likewise the coastal raiding qualities of the Special Service Commandos (10x50 men each) would surely require naval cooperation to the extent that they feature in this TL.

Sailing the KM capital ships out (and risking the last 'fleet in being') seems the ultimate folly, but OTL shows it quite likely. The idea of spliting a larger force into four seems a bit foolhardy to me. Aren't scouting forces enough to fix a position?
 
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3inch RP's

Hi Astrodragon

First let me congratulate you on your timeline, am hooked, I really like your writing.

I was wondering in your TL, might we see a earlier developement of airborne rockets, I am specifically thinking that they may come in handy in antishipping strikes and in the coming battles for North Africa, well whats left of it. With increasingly light/ merchant shipping in the med, they might be a good weapon for those aussie beaufighters that are trolling about looking for trouble? Given they pack a decent wallop for a lighter weight of ordinance than say a torepedo

I read that they were used in the desert war to good effect in the OTL so I would take that as being 1942 in the OTL you could potentially use them earlier

Regards
 

Sior

Banned
Hi Astrodragon

First let me congratulate you on your timeline, am hooked, I really like your writing.

I was wondering in your TL, might we see a earlier developement of airborne rockets, I am specifically thinking that they may come in handy in antishipping strikes and in the coming battles for North Africa, well whats left of it. With increasingly light/ merchant shipping in the med, they might be a good weapon for those aussie beaufighters that are trolling about looking for trouble? Given they pack a decent wallop for a lighter weight of ordinance than say a torepedo

I read that they were used in the desert war to good effect in the OTL so I would take that as being 1942 in the OTL you could potentially use them earlier

Regards

Don't forget;
Mk IID
The Hurricane Mk IID was an anti-tank aircraft, armed with two 40mm Vickers ‘S’ guns mounted under the wings, each with 15 rounds. Two of the wing mounted machine guns were retained, and given tracer ammunition to help the pilot judge the range to target. This turned the Hurricane into a very accurate anti-tank weapon, but presented the designers with a serious problem. Un-armoured the Hurricane retained its good performance but was vulnerable to ground fire. With suitable armour, the Hurricane lost its manoeuvrability, making it more vulnerable to enemy aircraft, but much more effective in the ground attack role. One squadron of armoured Mk IIDs (No 184) served in Europe, but the type served with four squadrons overseas, proving itself a potential weapon in the desert from the summer of 1942. In later versions the big guns were often replaced by rocket projectiles.
 

Hyperion

Banned
The Montana's, yes, just as in OTL.

The Alaskas? those wonderful cruisers that CalBear loves so much...?:p
Haven't decided yet....

At this point, they probably wouldn't be necessary if by 1943 the Royal Navy can have a dozen cruisers and five or six battleships parked in the Indian Ocean.
 
Usertron2020 is going be apoplectic!!!:eek::rolleyes::D

You used my name. That is an invocation, sir, to which I must respond.:p

Sorry for, well, I guess you'd call this a "necro-reply".:rolleyes: But I'm finally getting a chance to read Whale and so far (I've only gotten this far) I love everything I see.:cool:

Sorry to tell you this, Sandman396, But I LOVE A GOOD BRITWANK!:) My two favorite are "The Other Empire Strikes Back" (by Cymraeg) and "Naval Gift" (by Peg Leg Pom). As far as I'm concerned, any ATL where one side is consistently doing better in at least one arena is a wank. Others are free to disagree. Certainly, the UK was doing a pretty good imitation of Joe Btfsplk OTL prior to breaking the U-Boats and destroying the Afrika Korps.:cool:

Astrodragon has made it clear up to this point that Britain's victories on the high seas are going to result in better things happening for the US Navy in the Pacific, as any reasonable person would expect!(1) Also, I agree that Pearl Harbor is pretty much unstoppable. The racial arrogance of the time simply mandates the US won't believe PH can happen. I would only say that while I believe the Royal Navy would take a more professional approach regarding the Japanese Empire than the US, they'd be, considering that Britain's leadership was born in the 19th century, less concerned about Japan than if their skins were White.:(:eek::eek::eek:

1) Hey, if British carriers are at Midway, then the Hiryu gets clobbered at the same time as the rest of the Kido Butai, and the US carrier force is unmolested. Cause and Effect. I could care less about who gets the greatest glory, if it means the war ends sooner, with fewer casualties.:)

Astrodragon may have some inclinations towards jingoism regarding the US, but so far everything he's written has shown nothing more than a spirit of Good Clean Fun. This reads much like Cymraeg's and Peg Leg Pom's works. As an American, reading this, I might feel that, at worst, like I'm being hit by a small whiffle bat. And at best, in a good-natured pillow fight.:) Here, I do NOT feel, as an American, like I'm being battered by an aluminum baseball bat...:mad:

Anyway, so far (only up to Norway so far) its a gem! Good luck, Astrodragon.
 
At 0430 the Glorious started to fly off her planes. Given the unknown quantity of aircraft on the German carrier, it was a maximum strength strike in two waves. First 18 SeaLance armed with torpedoes, escorted by 6 Goshawks, then a second strike of 18 Cormorants with another 6 Goshawks. The remaining 8 Goshawks would be retained for defence.

Meanwhile Lutjens was still only aware of the cruiser loitering at the edge of his radar range. During the night, it had been decided to send out a search at first light, to sweep in front of the ships. While the weather was still poor, he needed to know if there were any British ships apart from the cruiser close to him. The Graf Zeppelin was carrying 20 Me109's and 24 Ju87. The Ju87 had a secondary function as a search plane, and 12 would be flown off to start the search as soon as it was light. The other 12 would attack and sink the cruiser, who'd shadowing was starting to annoy the German Admiral. As a result the German planes would have cleared their carrier by the time the FAA strike arrived.

The first ship to be subject to air attack that morning was the cruiser HMS Suffolk. The weather was clearer today, although the German ships were not quite visible over the horizon, and the ship was at action stations at dawn. Radar emissions from the German ships made it possible they had been spotted, and the intelligence reports indicated that there may be a carrier with the group. If so, it was going to get interesting when the sun rose.

At 0600 the cruiser saw the black dots of a flight of Stukas heading for them. The ship worked up to full speed and puffs of AA fire started to pockmark the sky around the dive bombers as they moved into their attack formation. As soon as the planes turned over into their dives, the close range AA joined in as well. Despite the lack of fighter cover, the Stukas did not escape without loss; two of them were shot down by the cruiser. This did not stop them getting three hits on the ship with 500kg bombs. The first hit just aft of the bridge, splinters killing and wounding many of the men on the bridge, and penetrating deeper to put the forward boiler room out of action. The second hit further aft, destroying the aircraft hangar and killing many of the crews serving the AA weapons, although fortunately none of the splinters from the bomb caused serious damage to the machinery space below. The third struck her on X turret, destroying the turret and causing additional damage to the engine room forward of the turret. Prompt action to flood the rear magazine prevented an explosion, but the ship was on fire and temporarily out of control and not under power.

While the attack on the Suffolk was taking place, the German force sighted the first strike from Glorious, her torpedo planes. These were escorted by 6 fighters, who moved to intercept the 4 Me109's that were the German CAP. As the fighters wove into a dogfight, the torpedo planes moved into attack formation. It was only when they dropped their torpedoes that things went badly wrong. In order to achieve the maximum damage, the torpedoes were using the duplex fuse. When the torpedoes hit the rough water of the Denmark Strait, instead of heading for the carrier they exploded on contact with the water. Only two torpedoes launched successfully, and the carrier managed to avoid both of them. The shooting down of two Me109's and damaging one more for the loss of one Goshawk hardly compensated for this, especially as two of the torpedo planes were lost to AA fire.

By now, it was obvious to Lutjens that a British carrier was in the area. Since his force was now located, the direction the British planes had come from was passed to his scouting force. It did not take long for one of the Ju87's to spot the Glorious and her two escorting destroyers. While that plane dodged in and out of clouds to avoid the attention of defending fighters, and a second plane was sent to join her as a back-up, the remaining scout planes were recalled. They would hopefully be recovered after the second British strike , already visible on the radar screens, had been fought off.

All the available fighters had been launched; 17 Me109's. facing them were the 18 dive bombers and their escort of 6 Goshawks. While the Goshawks did their best to keep the fighters off the dive bombers, it was almost impossible, and as a result the attack was severely disrupted, five of the Cormorants and four of the Goshawks being shot down for the loss of 2 Me109's. Only eight planes managed to attack the carrier, and the need to keep dodging the fighters and the AA fire from all four of the German heavy ships meant that only one hit was achieved on the Graf Zeppelin. The 1,000lb bomb penetrated her flight deck well forward, wrecking her forward elevator and causing serious damage to the forward part of the hanger. Luckily for the ship, all her planes were in the air, and as a result there was no large amounts of inflammable material or fuel to spread the blaze. However the thick plume of smoke towering in the sky over the ship did little to reassure the worried pilots who were wondering if they would have anywhere to land shortly. Even as the last of the British aircraft headed back to their carrier, the damage-control parties were racing to bring the fire under control.

It seemed that the Graf Zeppelin was a lucky ship. While it took some time to get the (thankfully minor) fire under control, the position of the hole in the deck was far enough forward that planes could still land, although moving them around to allow more to land on was a complex undertaking, especially as it was necessary to strike the dive bombers below to rearm them - a strike on the now-located British carrier was urgently needed, and being pushed by Lutjens.

While this was happening, Lutjens was deciding on the course of action for his force. He obviously needed to sink, or at least incapacitate, whatever carrier was out there, or his heavy ships would be attacked before they could break clear into the Atlantic. the question was, should he scatter the ships now, and leave the carrier on her own, or should they remain together until the carrier was dispatched. In the end he decided to remain together for the time being. As it turned out, a mistake. His decision was, however , fortunate for the Suffolk. taking advantage of the delay and confusion to the German force; she had cross-connected her remaining boiler and engine rooms and was limping Northwest at her best speed, hoping to close the icepack where she was likely to find fog to hide in. If the German ships had split up at that point, it is likely one of them would have been close enough to finish her off; however as a result of the flying operations the force was in fact heading south.

On Glorious, there was consternation as to the problems with the torpedoes, and the resulting survival of the German carrier. While a bomb hit had been reported, it was not clear if this would be enough to cripple her or even stop her making an attack on them. So while she recovered her planes, the carrier and her escorts turned south to close on the approaching fleet carriers and battleships, hoping to draw the German fleet after them.

It was still only 0900, and even though British force was indeed drawing the Germans towards the heavy Home Fleet units, it would be a few hours before the fleet carriers could launch. The information as to the torpedo problems had already been passed on, and preparations were underway on Glorious for a second strike, using the contact fuse on the torpedoes. The Germans were still being tailed by a radar-equipped Stirling out of Iceland, and the carrier air commander was sure he could get off a strike before the German carrier, even if the damage done wasn't enough to stop her flying off aircraft.

This estimate was in fact quite correct; it had taken the Graf Zeppelin well over an hour to get the fire under control and land her planes, and by the time the fire was out two hours had passed. Under normal circumstances this would have given the Glorious ample time to rearm, refuel, and get a second strike on the way before the German carrier could respond. However something was to happen which made this impossible.
At 0955, a lookout on the Glorious saw three torpedo tracks heading for the port side of the carrier.
 
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