The Iron Eagle III - Fallen Eagle
- Thread starter Kaiser of Brazil
- Start date
I think the Free French Empire will undergo a Yugoslavia-style collapse in the future. As you said, Napoleon is the only person keeping it together and while he did reform it to make things better for the Africans, the fundamental issues still remain under the surface and could easily resurface in the future. Local nationalism is hard to stamp out, especially when you are still clearly a colonial settler state, even if a soft one.
I think the only way the Free French Empire can survive in the long-term is, after Napoleon's death, an actual African becomes the emperor (and a competent person, not some madman like Bokassa) and further Africanizes Free France. In other words, Free France would need to Africanize to the point that it would longer be able to claim to represent France. It would be African in all but name (and might even change its name to the French African Federation or something like that).
There are at least 4 different nations that could be the "Fallen Eagle"
- United States
- Germany
- Free France
- Imperial Russia
EDIT: Oh, hang on. I've just seen the tags at the top of the screen. I don't think that will lead to the fall of America as a nation though. When compared to all the other options, the United States is still one of the more functional states in the world. Germany has a civil war and a war with Russia every time the Fuhrer dies, Free France is ruled by Emperor Bonaparte Tito and Imperial Russia is always a hair trigger away from crippling war with Germany.
England had a civil war in the 17th century and still became the most powerful nation in the world shortly after the dust settled, perhaps America goes the same way?
- United States
- Germany
- Free France
- Imperial Russia
EDIT: Oh, hang on. I've just seen the tags at the top of the screen. I don't think that will lead to the fall of America as a nation though. When compared to all the other options, the United States is still one of the more functional states in the world. Germany has a civil war and a war with Russia every time the Fuhrer dies, Free France is ruled by Emperor Bonaparte Tito and Imperial Russia is always a hair trigger away from crippling war with Germany.
England had a civil war in the 17th century and still became the most powerful nation in the world shortly after the dust settled, perhaps America goes the same way?
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1. Repeal any of this moral crusade bullshit that was promoted by Smith.
2. Keep the vast majority of Longist social programs/reforms, but also try to chip away at the Populist monopoly on power. I'd try and appeal to the Republicans and Democrats as well, lifting some of the more punitive Longist policies
3. Promote a very watered-down version of civil rights (considering the climate, we sadly can't just go full John Brown). I'd keep the BPP as an enemy but gradually pass rights that enfranchise the minorities of America. I'd use patriotic and nationalistic messaging in favor of a unified America regardless of race against all enemies foreign and domestic.
4. Commit to more fighting abroad against America's ideological enemies (fundamentalism, Nazism/Fascism, and Communism). Keep fighting in Mexico against the Synarchists.
5. Although FDR ITTL kicked the bucket, I'd try to establish a Good Neighbor Policy-esque alliance, with the goal being rallying liberal states in the Americas against Integralism.
6. Increased funding for the military and encourage defense research. It seems the U.S. military is in a pitiful state in comparison to OTL. I'd collaborate with Russia and Israel in developing tactics that work against the Nazis and their Pakt proxies.
Did 17th century England have a world-ending nuclear arsenal and the most well-armed population on earth?
The second one isn’t actually too far from the mark - the American idea of widespread gun ownership comes from the 1688 Bill of Rights in England.
Obviously they didn’t have nukes though (if they did, it still doesn’t make sense to use them against yourself), but they did have some cool looking cannons.
1) You have irritated Smith's supporters in the Right, as well a substantial amount of Catholics.
2) You will have a hard time working with the Republicans by keeping the vast majority of the Longist programs, don't count with support from the Society for Defense of Liberty.
3) You will have the opposition of the Democrats, the Right-Wing Populists and some of the Republican Right.
4) You will face growing spending and losses in an unpopular war while radicalized millions of neighbors against you. A more proactive foreign policy would be also controversial at home among Longists.
5) Good Neighbor policies will require significant investments and commitment in Latin America, your popularity suffers among Latin Americans by continuing the war in Mexico.
6) The debt in America will continue to grow without a Bretton Woods system to "export inflation", either Taxes and Tariffs have to be further increased or the inflation will become worse.
Not wanting to deincentivize anyone, but I just want to show how each of your suggestions can lead to a significant opposition at home.
Here, for instance:
The Progressive Populists will think you aren't going far enough on civil rights, that resources are being wasted in a pointless southern war, will oppose the continued war against the Black Panthers and will agitate over any inch given over the American welfare system.
The Longists will oppose further foreign intervention, concessions in welfare and any exorbitant growth in the military spending.
The Right-Populists will oppose the repealling of Moralistic policies, concessions on Civil Rights, concessions on welfare and will be divided over foreign adventures.
The Republicans will think the cuts on Welfare are far from enough, claim the Civil Rights solution needs to be more decisive, but will otherwise back the remaining policies.
The Society for Defense of Liberty will be divided at best over the Moral policies and want to go on a case by case basis, they will want to cut the welfare system entirely and end the Bank of America, they would accept your civil rights proposal at most, as well as demand you go further on military spending and interventionism.
Good luck, Mr. President.
And France, with bad harvests and debt, suffered a revolution and soon afterwards conquered Europe.
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That depends, most of the race-obsessed types did join the Populists or the Democrat Party, Smith himself was a Nazi in our world. Rockwell went for a more nationalist type of radicalism and has a good number of people who did become Nazis in our world included in there.
The Society for the Defense of Liberty are the most hawkish and Nationalistic types of Americans who are a reaction against Longism, they aren't all racists but they consider the matter secondary at best and do back Smith's ruthlessness against the Black Panthers.
And of course there are many proper Nazis in America, this is a world where Hitler won in Europe and they just recently had Hess (who promoted an alliance of Germans and Anglo-Saxons) and Goebbels (a masterful propagandist) as leaders. There would be many Americans who at least sympathize with Nazism and see Liberalism, Integralism or Chinese Communism as a bigger threat.
Wasn’t Goldwater pretty progressive OTL? IIRC he was highly supportive of civil rights and later on endorsed environmentalism and gay rights
The Society for the Defense of Liberty isn't. In the epilogue of the last Volume, Goldwater only reluctantly accepted the deal with Walker and the SDL because otherwise he would never be able to beat Nixon in the nomination race.
I wonder what "other sources of support" Smith has found here, if he's found any.
Also i wonder how Richard Nixon and George Wallace are doing at the moment.
Also i wonder how Richard Nixon and George Wallace are doing at the moment.
@Kaiser of Brazil
1. Invest in a watered down civil rights bill, opposition be condemned minorities should be included eventually and not in a hundred years. Accept that no matter what you do to please some people, they’ll never be satisfied and it’s better to fight for better conditions for ethnic minorities.
2. Make peace through reconciliation with the Black Panthers, having to fight fellow Americans is wrong and useless. It only strengthens the Nazis, makes America look weak, and fuels greater issues down the road.
2. Find a way to work with the Mexico government to pull out, and instead assist the war on the enemy from the sidelines. Push for peace if possible no atrocities against foreign civilians. Only agree to assist completely if the government actually attempts to remove the source of Integralist power.
3. Marginal cuts on welfare, but in return greater investment in the economy. Removal of programs unnecessary and useless to economic growth (that is not education or healthcare) for the people. Try Eisenhower style infrastructure plans to stimulate the economy, trains and mass transport is a must for economic expansion.
4. Removal of the Crusader Bill gradually, right-wing opposition and Catholic anger is worth getting rid of something against separation of religion and state.
5. Set up strong anti-corruption measures against any potential Longists. Make sure to assure the people that a return to Rule of Law is necessary. Gangsters and genuine criminals must be arrested, order must be restored peacefully.
6. Recreate the FDR Good Neighbor Policy with all Hispanic neighbors. Do it only after removing the army from Mexico. Lusophone Integralists fundamentally oppose having good relations with the USA, but having no diplomatic connections is worse than having some. It’s better to draw fellow American nations from Integralist influence through economy, than illegal invasions and coups. Better to diplomatically intervene with legal threats than illegal military or economic intervention (both of which go together).
7. Repair relations with the Coalition of Nations through investment and greater military ties. The Nazis are the greatest threat in the world and will certainly end the CON among others in times of weakness.
8. Building actual relations with India and other Asian nations. Japan/Russia/China are helpless Anti-American in beliefs, but it’s better at least trying to make the effort to reason with them. India in return for military and economic aid will be partial to if not friendship at least a common enemy. India has no reason to hate the USA outside of minority treatment, and can certainly appreciate military aid in case of Nazi confrontation. No need for troops, naval ships and weapons will help carry the day for a strong nation like India in future confrontations.
9. Build ties with any future African nations if gone independent, and do not give any aid to any nations occupying Africa not willing to decolonize for some degree. South Africa is what happens you don’t decolonize both the African and the European.
10. Give aid to Israel within reason, concessions must be given to Palestine Arabs. No greater assistance against the Nazis and Syrians without attempting to reconcile two different groups. Prepare for Syrian misadventures by supplying Arabs states within reason, and India.
11. Most important try to build a case for unity through appeals to the genuine moderate of different political groups through common ground. No extremists, no hardliners, bigots, and corrupt politicians. It won’t bring peace or stability immediately, but will bring a movement for prosperity it if it lasts. Being respectful to all is a must, even the ones you dislike it’s necessary to avoid being hated.
12. Be precautions towards any potential military coups, religious fundamentalist attacks, or attacks from criminals. No potential JFK assassinations in office. Strengthen security with trustworthy guards.
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Not specifically about it, no, although I did sometimes make references to movies and the general mood of the population before.