Sources on Medieval Scandanavia

[BBadolato]

So possibly from being obsessed with the idea from CK2, I've had an idea of Magnus the Strong, son of Niels of Denmark becoming king of Denmark and from there an earlier united Scandinavia. The time period would be the late 1120's for reference.

The big problem I only have a vague idea how both monarchies functioned as far as succession goes. With Denmark, I just know that it's an elective monarchy, with Sweden at the time a king was approved by the Geats in the south and the Swedes in north, while Magnus is considered a king of Sweden now, in his own time he was supported only by the Geats.

On top of that, I don't know who would be the electors or major players and what would be important locations at that time. Feel like saying that Magnus somehow wins out in Sweden, and becomes elected king of Denmark as well is just poorly done.

So to that end, does anyone happen to know where I could find good sources on medieval Scandinavia, in particular, how Denmark,Norway, and Sweden functioned politically for the early medieval period?

 

[arctic warrior]

Denmark had been through a long civil war to decide who's to be king during the 11. century in which one pretender was supported by the Hvide (White) nobility family and which continued into the 13. century to run the show in Denmark though infighting within the royal lines branches were frequent and king Niels was participating theirin. This is also the time when mounted knights is introduced into Scandinavian warfare which later to bankrupt Denmark durng the 13. century.
So you have an elective kingdom dependent upon the magnates and the church as the Hvide were taking hold of this as well. The election took place in Jutland, Sjælland and Scania each with its own Thing - Viborg in Jutland, Isøre in Sjælland and Lund in Scania.
The Hvide was controlling Sjælland and were even able to conduct warfare abroad themselves leading a crusade on Rügen 1100 and meddling in Swedish affairs leading the battle of Lena 1204. Other magnates were in Scania and Jutland. Generally the Jutish nobility were a very unruly lot prone to rebellion.
Within the kingdom the duke of Schleswig were another magnate though of the royal family which were often in conflict with their king.
Denmark always had a border security problem which have been defining of its history; the counts of Holstein and dukes of Saxony (tribal duchy) being the leading protagonist's.
Magnus was king of North Götaland at this time the area being subjugated to Denmark which supplied its king.

Norway was a hereditary kingdom though often as Denmark engulfed in civil war over succession. Viken - area around the Oslo fiord and Nidaros/Trondheim was very important. Norway had quite some mining of iron and silver.

Sweden was quite something else than today with Scania, Halland and Blekinga being Danish; West Götaland controlled by Denmark. Bohus län north of Göteborg and the Herjedal and Jemtland in todays central Sweden being part of Norway. This was about the time when Swedish conquest of Finland began and Sweden as an entity dates till post-Lena 1204.

Now sources... mine's really Danish, Norwegian and Swedish and I happen to have little knowledge of whats having been translated into foreign languages. But a quick google shows up titles such as a scan of Cambridge history but I haven't peroused that.

Btw the general perception of the free Scandinavian peasant being the backbone of society is at least in the Danish perspective close to being a thing of the past at this time. Problem is that even nobility was deemed peasant due to their reliance of agriculture for sustained wealth in this period. Another issue being the shift of military obligations from communities as seen in the Herred/Skipæn system into nobility obligations and royal prerogatives base upon taxation. Its all an era of change of course and you could possible see all forms at the same time.
How things are looking in Norway and "Sweden" at the time I'm no really informed but I would expect the Norwegian system in not differing much from Denmark though perhaps with a larger number of free peasants due to the more difficult communications within that country but be warned that the differentiating of freeman and nobility would probably be difficult there too I'd assume.
"Sweden" being in the form of forming by nobility families will probably be seeing a development of the same kind probably geared up to make up for less land and need for controlling power and resources in regard to the much stronger Denmark and Norway kingdoms.

 

[BBadolato]

Okay, so Jutland Sjælland and Scania all had their own Things who decide who would be the next king of Denmark. The Hvide family was a rising family in Denmark. Did the arrival of mounted knights come with Canute Lavard being both a German and Danish vassal?

So If I want to want Mangus king of Denmark he would have to be elected by those 3 things, this is assuming Magnus doesn't go through with killing Canute Lavard like in OTL?

 

[arctic warrior]

The Hvide family was a kind of Kingmakers of Denmark at this time - or was going to be soon.
First use of mounted knight dates to 1134 at the battle of Fotevig in Scania where Magnus was killed! Though there had been cavalry forces in Denmark before - use of the stirrup dates to the 8. century with spurs being older.
Magnus would have to be elected to rule with mandate; though he would have to get rid of his father before he himself could rule and king Niels didn't get killed til shortly after his son. The civil war went on post their deads so there were a large group of pretenders who all had a chance of getting elected.

Don't base history on a PC-game.

 

[von Adler]

Sweden at this time is a union of crowns rather than a country. The Eastern and Western Greats and the Swedes/Svithjods have their own things that all elect Kings. Someone might be elected King of all three, two or even just one. For example, in 1167 Kol and Burislev were elected co-Kings of the Eastern Geats.

It is not until the 1200s that any kind of institutions arise in Sweden - before that there MIGHT be a few royal farmsteads supposed to support the King and his retainers (maybe two dozen people) for part of the year in each of the three petty kingdoms. It is not until the county laws formalise the ledung in the early 13th century that the King gets any kind of institution or resources for being King of Sweden. And by that time, the army that the leding raises is starting to become outdated.

 

[arctic warrior]

@von Adler Good to see I wasn't too far off.

 

[BBadolato]

The Hvide family was a kind of Kingmakers of Denmark at this time - or was going to be soon.
First use of mounted knight dates to 1134 at the battle of Fotevig in Scania where Magnus was killed! Though there had been cavalry forces in Denmark before - use of the stirrup dates to the 8. century with spurs being older.
Magnus would have to be elected to rule with mandate; though he would have to get rid of his father before he himself could rule and king Niels didn't get killed til shortly after his son. The civil war went on post their deads so there were a large group of pretenders who all had a chance of getting elected.

Don't base history on a PC-game.

Sweden at this time is a union of crowns rather than a country. The Eastern and Western Greats and the Swedes/Svithjods have their own things that all elect Kings. Someone might be elected King of all three, two or even just one. For example, in 1167 Kol and Burislev were elected co-Kings of the Eastern Geats.

It is not until the 1200s that any kind of institutions arise in Sweden - before that there MIGHT be a few royal farmsteads supposed to support the King and his retainers (maybe two dozen people) for part of the year in each of the three petty kingdoms. It is not until the county laws formalise the ledung in the early 13th century that the King gets any kind of institution or resources for being King of Sweden. And by that time, the army that the leding raises is starting to become outdated.

Okay so from what I know the Civil War in Denmark in the 30's kicked off when Magnus killed Canute Lavard who was popular enough to be considered a contender to the throne of Denmark, Yet that was one year after Magnus was forced from Sweden. There isn't much on how he was forced back only that Magnus was in conflict with a guy named Kol in one source. I don't know if there's confusion between Sverker Kolson who became king of Sweden after Magnus and a man who could be his father, yet Magnus apparently struggled with Kol in the north, while Sverker's base of power was in Ostergotland, so with the Eastern Geats.

I feel this wouldn't be all that hard of timeline to go try out if I could get more detailed info. Why would Magnus need to get rid of his father, his father was trying to get him elected king?

 

[arctic warrior]

Knud Lavard didn't need popularity to get elected. You needed to be part of one of the royal family's lines to be considered for election. Popularity among the nobility and with the Church was whats needed!
Niels and Magnus feared Knud Lavard to be a pretender possibly because of his being a vassal of the HRE Emperor who following the murder of Knud Larvard 1131 led an army into the feudal lands of Knud's! The Emperor was bought off by 4,000 marks.
Because of the murder Harald Kesja and Erik Emune brothers of Knud rebelled against Niels and Magnus; Erik Emune being elected counter-king 1131 supported by Hvide and Trugot magnate families.
King Niels and Magnus who had 1134 shortly before the battle of Fotevig sworn vassalage to the Emperor and as such recognized as co-king of Niels.
I don't know about Kol. Could he be count Karl of Flanders who Magnus according to the yearbook of Lund had murdered 1128?
To become king in his own right Magnus had to wait for the demise of his father.

Fotevig was a disaster for Niels and Magnus attributed to the German knights hired by Erik Emune though 1132 Magnus was close to being captured by Erik Emune.

During the civil war 1131-57 which ultimatly ended with Valdemar I son of Knud Lavard becoming sole king the weaker party sought support from the Emperor and married to the daughter of Magnus widow of her second marriage Sofia of Minsk.
Possibly the Danish nobility wanted a large royal family to play against each other as somebody who got into the habit of killing off possible contenders faced a rebellion sooner or later. In that sense the way to stick to power could be to not killing Knud Lavard but holding him at arms length away from power.
The real problem in making Magnus king is probably the close connections of the sons of former king Erik Ejegod who had been married to Bodil Trugot - Knud Lavard son of Bodil and Harald Kesja and Erik Emune sons of friller i.e. kings legal mistress to the magnates of the Trugot and no less Hvide families.

 

[BBadolato]

I'm aware of that, So what I've been considering, is could Magnus not go through with kill Kund, maybe Mangus wins out in Sweden since Magnus was driven out in 1130. So if Magnus is still King of Sweden, but Kund Lavard is still alive by the time Niels dies, could he be elected as king of Denmark? would it be that much of a strange precedent I know Magnus IV/VII of Sweden and Norway was elected king of Sweden despite being king of Norway and only 3, granted it was nearly 200 years after this time?