I believe it was genuine. It didn't really measure up against anything, even the Schofield tank.
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Sir John Valentine Carden Survives. Part 2.
- Thread starter allanpcameron
- Start date
marathag
Banned
better than this effort from John Deere
Yeah, each...'turret' had some poor SOB crouching in as a machine gunner
At least the MG guy in the Semple got to lie on a comfy mattress
The BS was built around a caterpillar bulldozer chassis, so it moved at about walking pace.
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In terms of usefulness the Italians. The Japanese tanks were actually pretty useful in China and did well in the early jungle campaigns where they went places the Allies didn't think tanks could go.
The Italians were operating in Europe against proper tanks from day one.
Yes, but realistically the Jumbuck isn't going reach the front lines before mid-1943 at the earliest, and if there's still a Malaya campaign ongoing at that point, we've diverged from OTL by quite a way.
True but there will be some fighting somewhere in the region to the north of Australia, east of India and south of Japan where tanks with massive HE firepower will be useful.
Singapore holding butterflies a South West Pacific Area Command or at least one commanded by MacArthur via a continued British led ABDACOM but post the Philippines falling it will be a British Imperial plus Dutch theatre with fairly minimal American contribution, I just can't see the US pumping significant forces into a Theatre under a non-US command and without the OTL debacles the British aren't going to give up the leadership. With Aussie troops operating under British command in the Far East I think the pressure to have a continued Australian presence in the Med/European theatre will be very strong, Churchill will certainly want to push the "One Empire" aspect as hard as he can and bullying the Aussies into keeping a Division or two in the West will be part of that in return for a very large British commitment to defending Australia's northern approaches. So Aussie troops equipped with Jumbucks might be going up against Panthers in Italy or France in due course.
Yeah I think so too.
The government Works department was a huge deal in the First Labour government/WW2. It built all sorts of stuff, employed loads of people, had lots of depots and workshops across the country even in small towns and was a big source of patronage. So logically the Minister had a load of power in a way that doesn't really have a modern equivalent.
The Schofield tank would have been a better bet. Sure, it still wouldn't have gotten anywhere, but would at least have just (mostly, other than among tank aficionados) faded into obscurity, rather than becoming famous for all the wrong reasons.
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True enough, and assuming it fits on the landing craft, the Jumbuck will be an upgrade on the Matilda II CSs the Australians used OTL in New Guinea and Borneo in 1944-45.
I can't see them being shipped all the way to Europe, though, even if Australians are fighting there. It'll be logistically simpler just to equip the Aussies with Victors or Shermans or whatever the British are using, rather than having a separate supply chain running all the way back to Australia. Unless the Canadians are fielding Rams in numbers?
But OTL Australian armour deployments were an exercise in chasing moving targets. They originally planned to raise an armoured division (with British tanks) for service in Europe. Then by late 1940 thinking had moved to operations in the Far East and producing their own tanks. Then in the invasion scare of 1942, with British tanks unavailable and the Sentinel not yet in production, they rushed to build up armoured forces with Lend-Lease Stuarts and Grants. Then in 1943 with the invasion scare over, they decided that the areas they were going to be fighting in (New Guinea, New Britain, Solomons, maybe Borneo) were unsuitable for large-scale tank deployments and disbanded all their armoured divisions. Only a few infantry-support battalions with the Matilda II CS actually saw combat.
Battle of Slim River where 2 Commonwealth Brigades were overwhelmed by a force of about 20 tanks supported by a motorised battalion and some engineers
This thread has made me wonder about how you'd go about designing a tank from the ground up purely for the Pacific war. What I came up with was:
- Speed is not a major requirement - 15-20mph max is fine since the tanks will be used primarily for infantry support
- Off-road capability is a major requirement - where you're going the roads aren't and everything that isn't mountain is probably swamp
- Reliability and ease of maintenance is essential
- Armour on the European scale is not required - 50mm front/30mm sides is probably adequate, 60/40mm likely overkill since the Japanese use 37mm anti-tank guns
- Small size/low weight (both for fitting in the landing craft and through close terrain) is an advantage
- A gun that throws a big HE round is more important than armour penetration since Japanese tanks are scarce and flimsy and bunker-busting will be the day job
- A commander's cupola with an independently-rotating MG that can be fired when buttoned up for those Banzai-charge moments
- Consider a flamethrower variant from the beginning.
Mostly agreed though the terrain isn't exclusively jungle. Central Thailand for example is a large flat plain criss crossed with canals and not totally dissimilar from the Netherlands.
I'm not sure about this, there's some terrain that no tank however small can fit through but something bigger and heavier could bash it's way through.
I'm not sure about this, there's some terrain that no tank however small can fit through but something bigger and heavier could bash it's way through.
A tank designed specifically for the Far East you say!?
Beware, woe, and settle down children while we tell the tale of the A38 Valiant.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valiant_tank
Considered the classic example of how not to design a tank. The sole Valiant was retained by the School of Tank Technology, where students were treated to an inspection of it at the end of their course and invited to find fault. The historians view being "One hopes they started early in the morning."
Beware, woe, and settle down children while we tell the tale of the A38 Valiant.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valiant_tank
Considered the classic example of how not to design a tank. The sole Valiant was retained by the School of Tank Technology, where students were treated to an inspection of it at the end of their course and invited to find fault. The historians view being "One hopes they started early in the morning."
Imagine that but with a troop of Matilder II's added to the comonwealth forces....
And some basic familiarisation with tanks for the infantry
Honestly, other than the size/weight, the Churchill would have been a good choice. I mean, take the older Churchill III and make sure it's got the 75mm gun like the VII (like the NA75s, really). The III's lighter, but still good armour profile will be fine. The Churchill has the size and bulk to bully it's way through the jungle combined with it's excellent "go-anywhere" mobility is a good combination for the jungle. Plus it has a flamethrower variant as well, along with the other variants that exist already. Only thing it's lacking is the cupola machinegun. Plus, contemporary testing by the Aussies in 1944 said that the Churchill was the best tank for the jungle in their opinion.
Needs a bit more armour than even the late-war amtanks, so probably too heavy to swim - but I like the way you think.
So, it's only a swamp in the rainy season, then?
No requirement to carry troops - though I'm sure the squaddies won't complain.
Begone, and mention not that accursed contraption in this thread!
(The What Were They Thinking? Award goes to whoever specced a light tank for the Far East with 100mm+ frontal armour and a 57mm AT gun. What, exactly, did they expect it to be fighting there?)
marathag
Banned
Something like an diesel-electric drive T14 with a 105mm howitzer and .50 coax, and flamethrower in the bow. Optional mini-turret for the TC with MG.
Electric drive, as that gives maximum maneuverability, and issues over long range are secondary.
No flammable gasoline, but diesel, fuel shared with the flamethrower, should the thickened diesel be all expended.
Armor would be impervious to all known IJA guns frontally, and near all from other aspects, even at point blank range.
Weight would be less than the Jumbo.