Romans discover Australia !!

BrianP said:
The Western Australia secession movement was in 1933. I am currently sketching out an AH on that. They wanted to call it Westralia. Here are links with more info:
http://www.liswa.wa.gov.au/federation/sec/index.htm
http://casual.5u.com/sos.html

Sorry to get off-topic but wanted to drop that in for the blokes above.


1933 was it? Fair enough. For some reason I thought it was 1921. Needless to say the "yes" vote to secede actually won.

Anyway, as it was, WA (under Forrest) didn't want to join the Commonwealth in the first place! They were forced to join due to pressure from London. And there was also the fact that a large region around Kalgoorlie theated to secede from WA & join the Commonwealth in spite of what was happening in Perth.
 
OK, to get back on topic here.

Roman Triremes would not have been able to make it to Australia, that would have starved before reaching it if they came across the Southern Ocean from South Africa.

If they went the more plausible route, from the Red Sea to India to Indonesia then south-east to Northwest Cape, they would have ignored it and turned north, maybe landing at Darwin. We know the Chinese were there, pearling and gold mining centuries before Dutch and English explorers made the coast of Australia.

The issue of course for the Romans would be, if they made their way to Australia, what would they do when they got here? It is possible that a Roman Galley would be swept up on the West coast, much like Dutch and Portugese were during the 16th, 17th and 18th centuries. However, there is little surviving of known wrecks let alone earlier ones.

The other interesting reference has been to Odyseuss and Homer's Oddessy. The reference was wrong, in that the Trojan war was supposed to take place in Britian, aound Cornwall I think, not Turkey. The war was more about tin and its importance to making bronze weapons, according to this theory. In it, Cadiz was a stopover point for the fleet, and the Oddessy meant that Odyseuss went westward to the islands of the goddesses, made his way to the Americas, and so on. The problem is how did he get there? If I understand my ancient navigation problems, regular shipping routes were really based upon tidal and current flows, if so then could Odyseuss have really made it that far west?
 
DMA said:
Needless to say, out of 20 million Australians, 19 million of us decided to live in the East. I guess most of us prefer not sharing life with 100 million blow flies :D

And don't forget the rank sulphur smelling bore water they use. It makes me sick ... literally sick. I'm allergic to a whole damn city!
 
And don't forget the rank sulphur smelling bore water they use. It makes me sick ... literally sick. I'm allergic to a whole damn city!

:mad: we do not smell like sulf...(sniffs the air) oh i guess when you are around it all day you just get used to it. :eek:

thanks for the links Brian P. does that mean the WA is an occupied territory? thank you the Secession Act! well that explains why so much of our money from the oil and gas and mining goes east.

BTW acording to the 2001 census the WA pop is 1,828,294
 
The problem with Western Australia seceding is that they don't have any mineral resources. All the gas and iron ore is in North Western Australia and all the gold and nickel is in West Central Australia. If Perth decides to leave, the other areas don't care because then they get to keep the minerals for themselves. It's not like the rest of Australia is going to make Hammersly and Kalgoorlie stay in a marriage they don't like.
 
Scarecrow said:
:mad: we do not smell like sulf...(sniffs the air) oh i guess when you are around it all day you just get used to it. :eek:

thanks for the links Brian P. does that mean the WA is an occupied territory? thank you the Secession Act! well that explains why so much of our money from the oil and gas and mining goes east.

BTW acording to the 2001 census the WA pop is 1,828,294


Is that all? Well Sydney in comparison is about 4.5 million. So you could fit all of WA into Sydney three times over. That says something about WA. ;)

Oh & you forgot to mention the 100 million WA blow flies in the 2001 census too :p

So when are you Sand Gropers leaving considering the referendum passed over 70 years ago? Might it be that you guys hang around because the rest of the country pays for everything in WA? :eek: :D
 
Romulus Augustulus said:
Good Lord Aussies are weird. The latitude must have something to do with it...


Well we didn't vote for Dubya so we can't be all that weird. :D

Anyway, which particular latitude do you mean because we have many of them being the size of a continent ;)
 
Romulus Augustulus said:
I didn't vote for him either. Hardly surprising; I live in Washington State.


Good man! It makes you wonder, though, who did vote for him ;)
 
So when are you Sand Gropers leaving considering the referendum passed over 70 years ago? Might it be that you guys hang around because the rest of the country pays for everything in WA?

its because of our constitution we are an indisolvable federation. a state cannot leave unless the other states let it go. WA also isnt mentioned in the constitution, we didnt sign until the last minute. its a small loophole, and they tried to use it but it didnt stand up in court.
but we got the new Super 14 team in the rugby, beating the Vics!
has there ever been a secession movement in the East?

The problem with Western Australia seceding is that they don't have any mineral resources. All the gas and iron ore is in North Western Australia and all the gold and nickel is in West Central Australia. If Perth decides to leave, the other areas don't care because then they get to keep the minerals for themselves. It's not like the rest of Australia is going to make Hammersly and Kalgoorlie stay in a marriage they don't like.

well the 1934 referendum had a 66% yes, and im sure that they werent all from Perth. but if they dont want to stay...well we have our ways eh heh heh eh. when i talk about WA i dont mean just the south-west. the north and center are essential parts of our economy, both for mining and tourism purposes. we sell and will continue to sell our gas to china, which has a huge demand for it. maybe if we could somehow persuade to chinese to step in on our behalf?

the only way a state or group of people could secede in Australia is through a civil war, and since we dont have the numbers, we will have to sit tight until we finish making the nuclear bombs to drop on Sydney and Melbourne, and the glorious revolution will continue. ;)
 
Scarecrow said:
its because of our constitution we are an indisolvable federation. a state cannot leave unless the other states let it go. WA also isnt mentioned in the constitution, we didnt sign until the last minute. its a small loophole, and they tried to use it but it didnt stand up in court.
but we got the new Super 14 team in the rugby, beating the Vics!
has there ever been a secession movement in the East?


No that's wrong. There isn't anything at all mentioned in the Australian Constitution stopping a state from leaving. In fact there isn't even a clause dealing with a state withdrawing from the Commonwealth. Zero, zip, nardah. If a action, thus, isn't mentioned in the Constitution, it's considered a state right. As such States can come & go as they please. It's not up to other states to decide. It's remains the sole decision of the state in question. The issue of a indisolvable federation is an American thing, not an Australia one.

BTW, congradulations on getting the rugby team. All you need now is the personnel ;)



Scarecrow said:
well the 1934 referendum had a 66% yes, and im sure that they werent all from Perth. but if they dont want to stay...well we have our ways eh heh heh eh. when i talk about WA i dont mean just the south-west. the north and center are essential parts of our economy, both for mining and tourism purposes. we sell and will continue to sell our gas to china, which has a huge demand for it. maybe if we could somehow persuade to chinese to step in on our behalf?


Well historically speaking, the region around Kalgoorlie was prepared to secede from WA in the late 1890s in order to join the Commonwealth. I'd dare say, even in 1933, that this region would have remained loyal to the Commonwealth which basically leaves Perth & the south-west of the state.

As for resources - you do realise that far more money is raised from regular taxation than anything else? This means WA gets most of its money from the other 18 million Australians who live elsewhere. it was for this main reason that, even though the referendum was successful, the WA govt at the time did its maths & realised there was little chance that it could raise enough money to pay for everything. But if you guys want to leave, by all means do so. I won't stop you people. Of course you people will have to pay for everything yourselves including health, schools, universities, the military, roads, railways, etc, etc, etc :D


Scarecrow said:
the only way a state or group of people could secede in Australia is through a civil war, and since we dont have the numbers, we will have to sit tight until we finish making the nuclear bombs to drop on Sydney and Melbourne, and the glorious revolution will continue. ;)


Nope. As i said above, the individual state in question can leave whenever it wants, & considering WA has had a referendum on the matter, you guys can go whenever you want. And nukes? You guys don't even have any uranium mines let alone an atomic reactor. We, however, have both. So what's that about nukes?
 
No that's wrong. There isn't anything at all mentioned in the Australian Constitution stopping a state from leaving. In fact there isn't even a clause dealing with a state withdrawing from the Commonwealth. Zero, zip, nardah. If a action, thus, isn't mentioned in the Constitution, it's considered a state right. As such States can come & go as they please. It's not up to other states to decide. It's remains the sole decision of the state in question. The issue of a indisolvable federation is an American thing, not an Australia one.

ok i admit, paying for everything might be a bit hard, nay imposible unless we somehow boost our taxation or cut back on other things, so basicly we would be screwed if we secede,BUT, acording to the Australian Constitution and my mother who has a Politics degree, the Australian constitution states in its preamble;

'whereas the people of NSW, Victoria, SA, Queensland and Tasmania,* humbly relying on the blessing of the Almighty God, have agreed to unite in one indissoluble Federal Commonwealth....'
*yes WA isnt mentioned, i have my copy of the constitiution from my mothers collection of books (she is now a school teacher, but she worked for the Australian Democrats)

so short of actual civil war, no secession can take place

btw many consider the Australian form of giovernment the 'Washminster system' because it borrows from both the UK and the US systems.

as for the rugby, how does the name the Batavians sound? the Batavia was a ship that got shipwreaked of the WA coast in the ?1600's? and eventualy resorted to canabalism to survive. they even made an operah about it.
 
Scarecrow said:
ok i admit, paying for everything might be a bit hard, nay imposible unless we somehow boost our taxation or cut back on other things, so basicly we would be screwed if we secede,BUT, acording to the Australian Constitution and my mother who has a Politics degree, the Australian constitution states in its preamble;

'whereas the people of NSW, Victoria, SA, Queensland and Tasmania,* humbly relying on the blessing of the Almighty God, have agreed to unite in one indissoluble Federal Commonwealth....'
*yes WA isnt mentioned, i have my copy of the constitiution from my mothers collection of books (she is now a school teacher, but she worked for the Australian Democrats)

so short of actual civil war, no secession can take place

btw many consider the Australian form of giovernment the 'Washminster system' because it borrows from both the UK and the US systems.

as for the rugby, how does the name the Batavians sound? the Batavia was a ship that got shipwreaked of the WA coast in the ?1600's? and eventualy resorted to canabalism to survive. they even made an operah about it.


I've got both a BA & MA in politics. You quoted from the Preamble, not the Constitution. The Preamble isn't Constitutional Law. As a result, it isn't included when it comes to High Court decisions when it is deciding Judicial Review. I'd say, yes any decision by a state to secede would end up in the High Court, but then the bench could only make their decision based upon the 128 Sections of the Constitution & not upon the nine Sections of the Preamble.

It's a trap that one can fall into when discussing the ins & outs of out Constitution. The only way out, if the Preamble is to be included, is if the Bench decides that there is some Constitutional convention which may permit taking advice from the Preamble &/or there's some Common Law &/or Statue Law that would permit using the Preamble as Constitutional Precident on the matter. Now this I'm not aware of & it'd probably come down to the experience & skill of the Solicitor-General or whoever represents the Commonwealth in the High Court case. So I'd give it at least a 50-50 chance of secession through peaceful means as a state right.

Ah the good old 'Washminster system' as first labelled by Elanie Thompson of UNSW. The last I heard of her, she had become head of the Australian Studies Dept.

Why not just call your rugby team after your state nickname the Sand Gropers?
 
Why not just call your rugby team after your state nickname the Sand Gropers?

yeah, it doesnt sound as good as 'the Batavians' though.
give us some time to come up with my rebutal, but i think somehow we ,especialy my position, have switched sides in this hijacted thread. i'm saying we can't secede, your saying that we west aussies can go if we want...

besides some questionable economic gains, there realy isnt much of a reason for WA secession, although WA especialy Perth has always (fro some reason) seemed to be the most english Part of the Commonwealth, so POD is the the New Guard isnt so gung ho British Empire, and wants a republic cos of the crap treatment of Aussie troops in WWI. they win power in the East, but WA wants to stick in the EMpire, and secedes to become and indepenent dominion of the Empire.
 
wkwillis said:
The problem with Western Australia seceding is that they don't have any mineral resources. All the gas and iron ore is in North Western Australia and all the gold and nickel is in West Central Australia. If Perth decides to leave, the other areas don't care because then they get to keep the minerals for themselves. It's not like the rest of Australia is going to make Hammersly and Kalgoorlie stay in a marriage they don't like.


Ummm ... hate to break this to you, but the Gas, Iron, Bauxite, Gold, Nickel, Silver etc are all in the one state. West Australia. Since the states are independent entities, the goodies would go with them ... should it ever happen. Perth couldn't secede, West Australia could.

and lets not even consider the Principality of the River Hutt or whatever it's called nowadays


As for the new WA rugby union team, what about calling them the WA Anchors? *smiles innocently*
 
Leo Caesius said:
Do any of you remember the film Joe vs. the Volcano, staring Tom Hanks? He is brought to an island, Waponi Woo,

I was thinking the same thing when I saw this thread.

Do you supose some sort of haephestus live in the Big Woo?
 
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