Planning an optimistic timeline, where the world slowly gets better starting from the POD

Hi, everyone. I've been thinking about writing a timeline where things get better from the POD onward. The world gradually gets its act together and sets out on the right moral path, with justice gradually prevailing over injustice. It won't happen overnight, though, and there will be resistance every step of the way. But over centuries, the world will become more equitable, peaceful, and livable. My goal is for it to be plausible and interesting to read. It won't be 100% happy and I want to avoid leaving people with a sense of "that was too easy".

I haven't decided what time period I want to start in. Some of my top choices for the POD time period are: 1) The Seven Years War era in the mid 1700s, 2) The Gilded Age, around 1900, or 3) Right after World War II. It doesn't have to be one of these, there are plenty of other time periods that cone with their own interesting challenges. What are your thoughts?
 
I don't remember it's name, but IIRC some years ago someone posted a TL that was explicitly about "best realistic case possible for most realistic number of nations" starting with a Franco-German reconciliation in the late 19th century, which morphs into a proto-EU.
If you can find it - hopefully someone else might remember the name - I'd suggest you read it for inspiration.
 
I have a feeling that the main difficulty you're going to encounter will be coming up with a definition of "justice" and "optimism" that commands full consensus.
Just look at how many utopias for some are dystopias for others.
Everyone wants progress, it's what you put behind it that divides people.
 
I don't remember it's name, but IIRC some years ago someone posted a TL that was explicitly about "best realistic case possible for most realistic number of nations" starting with a Franco-German reconciliation in the late 19th century, which morphs into a proto-EU.
If you can find it - hopefully someone else might remember the name - I'd suggest you read it for inspiration.
That sounds cool! Thanks for telling me about it.
 
I have a feeling that the main difficulty you're going to encounter will be coming up with a definition of "justice" and "optimism" that commands full consensus.
Just look at how many utopias for some are dystopias for others.
Everyone wants progress, it's what you put behind it that divides people.

True. Difficulty with utopia is that people disagree what is good thing and what is better world. But with dystipia at least everybody can agree that this world really sucks.

But still you can find way to get world which most people agree being better. Of course some would always disagree.
 
Hi, everyone. I've been thinking about writing a timeline where things get better from the POD onward. The world gradually gets its act together and sets out on the right moral path, with justice gradually prevailing over injustice. It won't happen overnight, though, and there will be resistance every step of the way. But over centuries, the world will become more equitable, peaceful, and livable. My goal is for it to be plausible and interesting to read. It won't be 100% happy and I want to avoid leaving people with a sense of "that was too easy".

I haven't decided what time period I want to start in. Some of my top choices for the POD time period are: 1) The Seven Years War era in the mid 1700s, 2) The Gilded Age, around 1900, or 3) Right after World War II. It doesn't have to be one of these, there are plenty of other time periods that cone with their own interesting challenges. What are your thoughts?
Right before Henry viii beheads Anne Boleyn and decides not to so he can fit in with the fashion of all the other kings and queens in Europe and never married the rest of his wifes
 
Hi, everyone. I've been thinking about writing a timeline where things get better from the POD onward. The world gradually gets its act together and sets out on the right moral path, with justice gradually prevailing over injustice. It won't happen overnight, though, and there will be resistance every step of the way. But over centuries, the world will become more equitable, peaceful, and livable. My goal is for it to be plausible and interesting to read. It won't be 100% happy and I want to avoid leaving people with a sense of "that was too easy".
No Younger Dryas Event = no hunter-gatherers transitioning to agriculture = no tyranny and imperialism, no hard labor, no alcohol, sexism or plagues. (Of course, the late Ice Age world was already over-hunted to hell and back, so we ought to knock that POD back some more.
 
No Younger Dryas Event = no hunter-gatherers transitioning to agriculture = no tyranny and imperialism, no hard labor, no alcohol, sexism or plagues. (Of course, the late Ice Age world was already over-hunted to hell and back, so we ought to knock that POD back some more.

The problem is that then nothing happens and you can't write a timeline with that.
 
That sounds cool! Thanks for telling me about it.
Found it. Has earlier starting Pod, than I remember actually.

Here's the link to part 1. You should find 2-4 by searching the title.

 
No Younger Dryas Event = no hunter-gatherers transitioning to agriculture = no tyranny and imperialism, no hard labor, no alcohol, sexism or plagues. (Of course, the late Ice Age world was already over-hunted to hell and back, so we ought to knock that POD back some more.
There was all sorts of tyranny, imperialism (for a given value of "imperialism"), hard labor, sexism, and plagues in hunter gatherer society, especially in very good lands where the hunter gatherers had relatively high density.
 
There was all sorts of tyranny, imperialism (for a given value of "imperialism"), hard labor, sexism, and plagues in hunter gatherer society, especially in very good lands where the hunter gatherers had relatively high density.
Not really. Authorities cannot monopolize access to ressources in a hunter-gatherer economy, because the investment required to access them is trivially low. Humans can easily supply themselves with food and shelter without support from a wider community if they have the required skills. Hence also no imperialism, which you need states for.

Also no hard labor. Hunting and gathering can be physically demanding, but they don't require constant overexertion, and don't utterly destroy the body in the way that agricultural labor does.

Sexism is a result of high specialization, which again cannot exist if everyone is doing the same job: i.e. finding food. That said, men hunt more large game in most such societies, hence supplying less but more prestigious calories overall.

Almost all of our plagues were much, much less widespread proportionally before the agricultural revolution.
 
Maybe the khazars converting to Orthodoxy thus possible spreading orthodox faith to other nations and maybe form finno-ugric states,or maybe Adalbert of Prague converts baltic prussians thus avertic the Baltic Crusade or maybe Basarab of Wallachia creates an earlier Romania or maybe no Wuzang buddhist and other foreign religions persecutions?
 

raharris1973

Gone Fishin'
Hi, everyone. I've been thinking about writing a timeline where things get better from the POD onward. The world gradually gets its act together and sets out on the right moral path, with justice gradually prevailing over injustice. It won't happen overnight, though, and there will be resistance every step of the way. But over centuries, the world will become more equitable, peaceful, and livable. My goal is for it to be plausible and interesting to read. It won't be 100% happy and I want to avoid leaving people with a sense of "that was too easy".

I haven't decided what time period I want to start in. Some of my top choices for the POD time period are: 1) The Seven Years War era in the mid 1700s, 2) The Gilded Age, around 1900, or 3) Right after World War II. It doesn't have to be one of these, there are plenty of other time periods that cone with their own interesting challenges. What are your thoughts?
This is a great idea for a thread, and I commend you for bringing up a challenge to come up with what the old poster GeographyDude would have called a 'high-trajectory' path.
Right before Henry viii beheads Anne Boleyn and decides not to so he can fit in with the fashion of all the other kings and queens in Europe and never married the rest of his wifes
One idea I've had is Henry VIII related, but different from this, but it was inspired from watching the first episode of HBO's, 'the Tudors'. It was when young Henry, in the midst of a peace treaty signing with France, was all excited about his Chancellor's concept of a Europe wide Treaty of Collective Security, where the states of Europe would pledge mutual nonaggression, and, in case of lawless aggression in violation of the pact, would unite as one to check the aggressor. I have only evoked this idea on these boards so far in the ASB forum, but found it interesting enough that this aspect of the 'Wilsonian' idea had appeared 350 years ahead of time, that I thought it worth discussing. Other early 'League of Nations'/Collective Security system ideas discussed in the 1600s and 1700s were a concept by a French monk involving a League of Europe, China, Persia, and possibly the Great Mogul, and then a similar idea by William Penn. A flaw in both their ideas is that it had a warlike, anti-Ottoman side. Although the Concert of Europe and Tsar Alexander proposed 'Holy Alliance' had its socially and politically reactionary and retrograde aspects in terms of opposing revolutionary and republican political change - sort of the self-determination aspects of Wilsonianism, it did have that aversion to international war, sanctity of borders, collective security aspect of Wilsonianism.


Regarding your specific requested periods @Miranda Brawner -
Some of my top choices for the POD time period are: 1) The Seven Years War era in the mid 1700s, 2) The Gilded Age, around 1900, or 3) Right after World War II. It doesn't have to be one of these, there are plenty of other time periods that cone with their own interesting challenges. What are your thoughts?
Here is what I can come up with off the topic of my head:

1) Can't do 7 Years War on the nose....it seems to 'inevitably' follow from too much 'unfinished business' from the War of Austrian Succession. But I can get close. Let's prolong the period of 1715-1740s Anglo-French peace that existed under the guidance of Robert Walpole and Cardinal Fleury, in both Europe and the colonial sphere, throughout the rest of the century, and indefinitely, thus avoiding their parts of the War of Austrian Succession and the 7 Years War, and the two associated Intercolonial, or 'French and Indian' Wars. France and Britain, despite quite rivalrous and competitive feelings throughout the 19th century, and cultural rivalries and resentments into the 20th and 21st century, managed to avoid bilateral hot wars after 1815. They might be able to stay out of the rut from the early Enlightenment, 1715, onward. A secondary useful PoD, would be a lower ambition Frederick the Great, who does not landgrab Silesia, spur the European coalition to pounce on the Habsburgs, and determine Maria Teresa upon revenge.

2) The Gilded Age, around 1900 - a couple ways to go - if the main thing is to stop or slow the march of wars and political chaos, something helpful might be an unexpected thing, like an Ottoman alliance with Germany and Austria-Hungary, with the latter two signing up for a territorial guarantee of the former, at any point between 1896 and 1907. Backed by German and Austro-Hungarian protection, would be Italian and Balkan League attackers of the Ottomans are deterred. Wars and associated ethnic cleansings related to the disintegration of that empire are avoided. A more secure feeling Austria-Hungary never feels so threatened by Balkan developments that it starts looking to preventive war on Serbia as its policy solution. Germany's Austrian and Ottoman allies do not do anything to encourage German panick about taking care of France and Russia before Russia gets too strong. If your focus is more technological and cultural, perhaps green revolution agricultural tech is introduced earlier, allowing more people to live, and preventing living space fears in WWI and the interwar era. Or electronics and associated media technologies advance faster, allowing earlier popular mobilizations against various injustices.

3) Right after WWII - FDR sticks with Wallace, and Stalin dies, leaving Beria as his immediate successor. Beria then conveniently dies, with Malenkov as his successor. The US, USSR, and GBR remain on decently communicative terms. The powers agree to a united neutral Germany, later on a united, neutral Korea. The US and USSR both work to restrain the reemergence of the Chinese Civil War, as Britain tires of the Palestine Mandate, the US and USSR, and additional countries - Swedes, Brazilians, man a peacekeeping force that prevents the outbreak of the Arab-Israeli War. It enforces either the US partition plan boundaries, but without allowing forced ethnic movements, or it enforces a united multiethnosectarian state in Palestine, possibly with a 'cosociational' democratic constitution like Lebanon - different offices reserved for Muslims, Jews, Christians, etc. No Korean War obviously. More openness between eastern and western spheres economically, and when there is contrast and competition between spheres, it is more economic and peaceful than OTL.
 
No Younger Dryas Event = no hunter-gatherers transitioning to agriculture = no tyranny and imperialism, no hard labor, no alcohol, sexism or plagues. (Of course, the late Ice Age world was already over-hunted to hell and back, so we ought to knock that POD back some more.
As someone who's actually spent part of a night setting up a shelter for myself without industrial-society-provided-tents in the forest, I have to say I'm not at all sure this would be a better world in purely material terms.
 
Hi, everyone. I've been thinking about writing a timeline where things get better from the POD onward. The world gradually gets its act together and sets out on the right moral path, with justice gradually prevailing over injustice. It won't happen overnight, though, and there will be resistance every step of the way. But over centuries, the world will become more equitable, peaceful, and livable. My goal is for it to be plausible and interesting to read. It won't be 100% happy and I want to avoid leaving people with a sense of "that was too easy".

I haven't decided what time period I want to start in. Some of my top choices for the POD time period are: 1) The Seven Years War era in the mid 1700s, 2) The Gilded Age, around 1900, or 3) Right after World War II. It doesn't have to be one of these, there are plenty of other time periods that cone with their own interesting challenges. What are your thoughts?
I vote for Seven Years War.

Also, I have for the past several years been working on a sort of "personal TL" where the goal of it is basically this, but with a bend towards OTL. Basically serving as a sort of setting for interesting things. I started it as an effort to combine my favorite TL's on the site, underrated alternate history ideas, and of course my own personal opinions on history "should" have turned out. It just kind of morphed on from there. Some main points: India, Iran, Turkey and China all stay or become politically coherent. India under better successors to Aurangzeb; Iran under a more successful Nader Shah and competent heirs; Turkey under a successful Selim III, China under a more reform minded 19th century Qing.

Europe gets basically a 18th century Bourbon wank; Luis I of Spain lives longer and propagates a more Spain focused House of Borbon instead of the Italian-Europe focused ones we got IOTL. Le Petit Dauphin, grandson of Louis XIV lives to become a Louis XV which is remembered as conquering and keeping the Southern Netherlands and being a great reformer. Latin America isn't really Latin America; the Spanish Bourbons enact less extracting Bourbon Reforms and at the end of the century enact a vision similar to the proposals of the Counts of Floridablanca and Aranda, binding Mexico and Peru to the Peninsula further. Brazil keeps its monarchy. France never invades Algeria. The Triune Monarchy plan is enacted in Austria. There's more but I would be writing pages lol.

But one of the core ideas in writing this is to prevent political fragmentation, especially outside of Europe. In most cases when that happened, it made the successor states
(Central America, South America, Mid East, Indian subcontinent) worse off and more prone to being ruled by oligarchies and vulnerable.
 
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