By this time Russia will hold most of China and this Siberian city will be equally close to both vital parts of the Empire (or equally far from them).
Nail on the head, and it will fail on both fronts.
Peter Goes East: An Alternate Russia
- Thread starter ElCaudillo
- Start date
Nail on the head, and it will fail on both fronts.
There was an ancient Empire which had the capital(s) in the center. It had its advantages.
Tidbit: the idea that igneous rocks were volcanic in origin didn't emerge until the mid-1700's, with the advent of plutonism. Before that, it was thought that all rocks and landmasses were formed in the Flood.
So, during Peter the Great's time, there is no concept of igneous rocks, and they certainly wouldn't have recognized the Siberian Traps as volcanic in origin.
Just in case you cared about getting this much nit-picky authenticity in your historical diaries.
This is just sheer fun
Tyumen. Of course. Come on, you know you wanna. I'm not biased at all. But just so you know, our mosquitoes are amazing, and our spring floods are second to none.
As for the serious parts of the story, I wonder how much good/bad Sofya/Galitsin will manage to do. I actually have a lot of hope for both of them, provided they can hang on a little bit more.
Peter was a hardcore conservative compared to his sister, before he became a reformer. Make of that what you will.
Tyumen. Of course. Come on, you know you wanna. I'm not biased at all. But just so you know, our mosquitoes are amazing, and our spring floods are second to none.
As for the serious parts of the story, I wonder how much good/bad Sofya/Galitsin will manage to do. I actually have a lot of hope for both of them, provided they can hang on a little bit more.
Peter was a hardcore conservative compared to his sister, before he became a reformer. Make of that what you will.
Phew. I had almost forgotten about this! I promise it won't die! I will have an update up soon!
Thank you, Milord Nitpickerp), but actually, that section is from a historical document written much later....
Hey, in all seriousness, it might actually become a sort of forward capital for Peter as he pushes the bounds of settlement!
Galitsin will do a lot of good before he and Sophia fall, modernization of education, etc. And Peter won't roll back those reforms; my idea of the "Eastern Peter" is one that will redefine Russian nationalism by mixing Russian and Orthodox tradition with Western science and, of course, weaponry. It'll be cool, I promise ya.
Tidbit: the idea that igneous rocks were volcanic in origin didn't emerge until the mid-1700's, with the advent of plutonism. Before that, it was thought that all rocks and landmasses were formed in the Flood.
So, during Peter the Great's time, there is no concept of igneous rocks, and they certainly wouldn't have recognized the Siberian Traps as volcanic in origin.
Just in case you cared about getting this much nit-picky authenticity in your historical diaries.
Thank you, Milord Nitpicker
p), but actually, that section is from a historical document written much later....This is just sheer fun
Tyumen. Of course. Come on, you know you wanna. I'm not biased at all. But just so you know, our mosquitoes are amazing, and our spring floods are second to none.
Hey, in all seriousness, it might actually become a sort of forward capital for Peter as he pushes the bounds of settlement!
Galitsin will do a lot of good before he and Sophia fall, modernization of education, etc. And Peter won't roll back those reforms; my idea of the "Eastern Peter" is one that will redefine Russian nationalism by mixing Russian and Orthodox tradition with Western science and, of course, weaponry. It'll be cool, I promise ya.
Here, in fact. I'm afraid I'm not great at writing battle scenes.
An excerpt from “Warriors of God”(1) (1951, St. Petersburg-on-the-Ob University Press)
…the mighty force assembled by the Tsar Pyotr Alexeyvich and the boyar Galitzin(2) now waited, hidden, near the sweetly-burbling river Amur, where 15,000 Manchurians remained encamped. The Tsarevich was momentarily taken aback to see the devastation wreaked upon Albazin by the Manchu forces; the town was burned, the fort sacked, the survivors—some 6,000 Russians—forced into the woods to live as beasts, and the crops made to feed the army. Unfortunately for the Russians, the town had been taken more than a year before, as a survivor, one Feodor Pavlovich told the young Pyotr.(3) Luckily, the Manchurians were now expecting no retaliation from the Russians, who they believed to be cowed by the show of might. Pyotr, despite being enraged by the callous treatment of his fellow countrymen, calmed down enough to listen to the advice of his top aide, Alexey Lebedev. Lebedev advised an attack under the cover of night, to surprise the Manchurians and deliver a hammerblow from which they could not recover. The Tsar reluctantly agreed, and his army began preparing for that night’s assault…
. . .
Colonel Pyotr Alexeyvich Romanov crouched behind a large boulder, gripping his gun with hands red with cold. Despite the fact that he was freezing his royal genitals off out here among the Chinese devils, a lightening sense of giddiness filled him. Battle. He was finally to taste battle. A bluebird called from a nearby tree, and he looked sharply in that direction. His face breaking into a grin, he imitated the call and watched Alyosha Lebedev crawl his way over to the Tsar. The man’s big, scarred face looked grim despite Pyotr’s excitement. Whispering softly; “I must remind you, Pyotr, this fight is nothing to be smiling about. Feodor(3) tells me the Manchurians fight like bears.” The Romanov heir could barely keep from bursting into laughter. Stage-whispering, he said; “Alyosha! We are Russian. Nothing can stand in our path! Now let us go!” Despite himself, Lebedev felt a smile struggle out at his young friend’s excitement. “Yes, Colonel.” Turning, Alyosha whistled twice, shortly, and moved out from behind the boulder, hurrying towards the huge Qing encampment around the Amur with Pyotr hot on his heels. Taking position behind a rotted log only a few feet from the first campfire, the two cocked their muskets, steadied them upon twin bardiches(4), and waited for a few moments. Then, Alyosha shouted the agreed-upon firing order; “For God and the Tsars!”
A sound like thunder echoed throughout the valley as the first, long, hidden, disjointed line of Russian musketmen stood and fired at the Manchurians. Dropping instantly to let the seconds fire, the first line slung their muskets over their shoulders and picked up the long-hafted bardiches that they had used to steady their guns. As the second line finished their volley, the first charged the Manchurian camp, howling like mad dogs, followed by the tardy seconds. Colonel Romanov seized his own bardiche and leapt over the log, charging into the first in a long line of camps. The Manchurians had been preparing evening meals and had been totally surprised by the Russian assault. Despite this, three Qing soldiers armed with strange straight swords with intricately carved, huge crossguards. Shouting war cries, Alyosha and Pyotr attacked the three; Lebedev managed to herd the two largest away from the Tsar so as to handle them himself, something that Pyotr simply didn’t notice. The man facing Pyotr was small, but stocky in a muscled way, and was certainly proficient with his sword, as Pyotr soon learned by way of a slice across his arm. His technique needed work, though, as he soon learned by way of a bardiche buried in his chest.
Tearing a piece of his warm streltsy coat off, Pyotr tied it around his bleeding arm with a grimace and sprinted towards Lebedev, who had already dispatched one of the Manchurians and was finishing off the second. Grinning despite his pain; “Onwards! I thirst for more battle!” Lebedev laughed and slapped Pyotr on the back. “Then I am afraid you will have to stay thirsty, my friend. (5) We have won!” Surprised, Pyotr looked down the line of campfires. As far as the eye could see, Manchurians were throwing down their arms or already dead at the hands of the experienced Russian soldiers. The battle was truly won.
Notes
(1) A pretty big tome examining, in meticulous and highly biased detail, the Russian campaigns in the Far East.
(2) There are multiple spellings of Golitsyn, but Galitzine is my favorite.
(3) Feodor Pavlovich, the survivor mentioned before.
(4) The bardiche is a weapon long used in Russia and Scandinavia; something like a short poleaxe with a long, cleaver-style blade rather than a hooked or pointed blade.
(5) Alexey Lebedev is The Most Interesting Streltsy In The World.
Chapter 3
Riding to Albazin: Part Two
"The hammer shatters glass but forges steel."
Riding to Albazin: Part Two
"The hammer shatters glass but forges steel."
An excerpt from “Warriors of God”(1) (1951, St. Petersburg-on-the-Ob University Press)
…the mighty force assembled by the Tsar Pyotr Alexeyvich and the boyar Galitzin(2) now waited, hidden, near the sweetly-burbling river Amur, where 15,000 Manchurians remained encamped. The Tsarevich was momentarily taken aback to see the devastation wreaked upon Albazin by the Manchu forces; the town was burned, the fort sacked, the survivors—some 6,000 Russians—forced into the woods to live as beasts, and the crops made to feed the army. Unfortunately for the Russians, the town had been taken more than a year before, as a survivor, one Feodor Pavlovich told the young Pyotr.(3) Luckily, the Manchurians were now expecting no retaliation from the Russians, who they believed to be cowed by the show of might. Pyotr, despite being enraged by the callous treatment of his fellow countrymen, calmed down enough to listen to the advice of his top aide, Alexey Lebedev. Lebedev advised an attack under the cover of night, to surprise the Manchurians and deliver a hammerblow from which they could not recover. The Tsar reluctantly agreed, and his army began preparing for that night’s assault…
. . .
Colonel Pyotr Alexeyvich Romanov crouched behind a large boulder, gripping his gun with hands red with cold. Despite the fact that he was freezing his royal genitals off out here among the Chinese devils, a lightening sense of giddiness filled him. Battle. He was finally to taste battle. A bluebird called from a nearby tree, and he looked sharply in that direction. His face breaking into a grin, he imitated the call and watched Alyosha Lebedev crawl his way over to the Tsar. The man’s big, scarred face looked grim despite Pyotr’s excitement. Whispering softly; “I must remind you, Pyotr, this fight is nothing to be smiling about. Feodor(3) tells me the Manchurians fight like bears.” The Romanov heir could barely keep from bursting into laughter. Stage-whispering, he said; “Alyosha! We are Russian. Nothing can stand in our path! Now let us go!” Despite himself, Lebedev felt a smile struggle out at his young friend’s excitement. “Yes, Colonel.” Turning, Alyosha whistled twice, shortly, and moved out from behind the boulder, hurrying towards the huge Qing encampment around the Amur with Pyotr hot on his heels. Taking position behind a rotted log only a few feet from the first campfire, the two cocked their muskets, steadied them upon twin bardiches(4), and waited for a few moments. Then, Alyosha shouted the agreed-upon firing order; “For God and the Tsars!”
A sound like thunder echoed throughout the valley as the first, long, hidden, disjointed line of Russian musketmen stood and fired at the Manchurians. Dropping instantly to let the seconds fire, the first line slung their muskets over their shoulders and picked up the long-hafted bardiches that they had used to steady their guns. As the second line finished their volley, the first charged the Manchurian camp, howling like mad dogs, followed by the tardy seconds. Colonel Romanov seized his own bardiche and leapt over the log, charging into the first in a long line of camps. The Manchurians had been preparing evening meals and had been totally surprised by the Russian assault. Despite this, three Qing soldiers armed with strange straight swords with intricately carved, huge crossguards. Shouting war cries, Alyosha and Pyotr attacked the three; Lebedev managed to herd the two largest away from the Tsar so as to handle them himself, something that Pyotr simply didn’t notice. The man facing Pyotr was small, but stocky in a muscled way, and was certainly proficient with his sword, as Pyotr soon learned by way of a slice across his arm. His technique needed work, though, as he soon learned by way of a bardiche buried in his chest.
Tearing a piece of his warm streltsy coat off, Pyotr tied it around his bleeding arm with a grimace and sprinted towards Lebedev, who had already dispatched one of the Manchurians and was finishing off the second. Grinning despite his pain; “Onwards! I thirst for more battle!” Lebedev laughed and slapped Pyotr on the back. “Then I am afraid you will have to stay thirsty, my friend. (5) We have won!” Surprised, Pyotr looked down the line of campfires. As far as the eye could see, Manchurians were throwing down their arms or already dead at the hands of the experienced Russian soldiers. The battle was truly won.
Notes
(1) A pretty big tome examining, in meticulous and highly biased detail, the Russian campaigns in the Far East.
(2) There are multiple spellings of Golitsyn, but Galitzine is my favorite.
(3) Feodor Pavlovich, the survivor mentioned before.
(4) The bardiche is a weapon long used in Russia and Scandinavia; something like a short poleaxe with a long, cleaver-style blade rather than a hooked or pointed blade.
(5) Alexey Lebedev is The Most Interesting Streltsy In The World.
MarshalBraginsky
Banned
If Peter's conquest of the Far East does continue with his successors, what could possibly be the result? Do we see a Russia that controls more Pacific territories?
That's part of the point. It will continue with his successors and Russia will control more of the Pacific.
MarshalBraginsky
Banned
IN that case, I'll give you permission to use some of the info from Ivangorod Prosperous if you need to. I'm pretty much done with the TL, but you can help improve on it to your own discretion.
Oh, please do. It would be quite helpful. Should I simply read the TL (which I have in past times, did like it), or can I ask you to send some stuff to me?
Hendryk
Banned
Before you get carried away, keep in mind that the Manchus gave the Russians a bloody nose in 1689, and the only reason Russia got away with the annexation of Outer Manchuria in 1858 was because China was in the midst of a civil war.Well, when I say a Peter focused on the East, I mean a Peter focused on charging through the East like a wild bull and making it all Russian.
In geographical terms, Russia in OTL is already a country wanked pretty much to the limits of plausibility. I'm not really seeing the point of taking this any further, especially if "making it all Russian" implies ethnic cleansing.
Oh no, I didn't mean ethnic cleansing! And anyway, Russia at the time does not consist of most of its later western territories--even the Crimea is not Russian, even ITTL. That'll remain the way it is. But Russia under Peter, with his military reforms (which, FYI, will still happen ITTL), will at least be able to give the Mancus a bloody nose.
MarshalBraginsky
Banned
A combination of both. OF course, I don't have a map for it. Also, my PoD for Ivangorod was during Ivan the Terrible's reign, but it can still be salvaged.
I am curious as to how the Tsar's Army can cover the distance between the Volga and Albazin, that is nearly 6 000km in a mere two months. Doing so in that space of time would require walking non stop every day for two months, something which is humanly impossible.
Even more, moving thousands of men across an entire continent is logistically impossible at that time. Do you have any idea of the amount of horses, oxen, powder and food that would be required?
In order to tame and settle areas as huge as Siberia, you need at the very least roads and in order to move armies and settlers in numbers large enough to conquer already established polities. You need at least railways and telegraphs in my opinion.
As for building a capital from scratch in the middle of Siberia, you definitely needs at least railways and steam engines.
Even more, moving thousands of men across an entire continent is logistically impossible at that time. Do you have any idea of the amount of horses, oxen, powder and food that would be required?
In order to tame and settle areas as huge as Siberia, you need at the very least roads and in order to move armies and settlers in numbers large enough to conquer already established polities. You need at least railways and telegraphs in my opinion.
As for building a capital from scratch in the middle of Siberia, you definitely needs at least railways and steam engines.