Overview of Muslims in America

What might a good POD be to reduce European immigration but increase Turkish immigration?

Hmmm...perhaps a successful 1848 leads to some kind of internal upheaval in the Ottoman Empire, with a "Great Man" invented for the purpose of the TL spreading an early sort of pan-Turanian ideal?

This could lead to oppression of Arabs (non-Turkic/Euro Muslim) and wars with Russia, generating refugees and the like, plus a successful 1848 means fewer immigrants from Europe.
 

Glen

Moderator
Interesting idea, but you really do need a set of specific divergences to explain how this comes about, before getting into your very interesting depiction of the developments into the modern era.

Still, I encourage you to keep it up!

A few thoughts for just HOW all these Muslims come to America.

First, why not have Egyptians, Iraqis, Javanese, or Muslim Indians be the builders of railroads and mine laborers in the early West? Stronger anti-Chinese sentiment or a stronger Chinese empire that's reluctant to export laborers could explain this. Even if the majority of these Muslims go home, a foothold will have been established.

In OTL, there was a huge migration of black Southerners to the cities of the North. This followed the imposition of immigration restrictions in 1924. The factors which led to this OTL restriction are obviously different in this TL, but perhaps the fear of the "Red Menace" leads to early restrictions on European immigrants. The Muslims also take the place of blacks in major cities, either because African-Americans prefer to remain in a happy shiny tolerant South, or because Northern sentiment against blacks is stronger than against foreign Muslims.

Just a couple thoughts. Please keep this up, I look forward to each update!

Something I overlooked when I first read that part: why hold the meeting in what was at the time a remote frontier settlement? I'm not even sure the Sioux were gone from the region in 1852, and the only way to get there must have been a days-long journey in horse-drawn wagon. The region only became accessible by railway in the 1870s.

So while "Council of Pierre" does have a nice ring to it, it seems to me that such a gathering would have been more likely to take place in one of the Eastern states.

What might a good POD be to reduce European immigration but increase Turkish immigration?

Hmmm...perhaps a successful 1848 leads to some kind of internal upheaval in the Ottoman Empire, with a "Great Man" invented for the purpose of the TL spreading an early sort of pan-Turanian ideal?

This could lead to oppression of Arabs (non-Turkic/Euro Muslim) and wars with Russia, generating refugees and the like, plus a successful 1848 means fewer immigrants from Europe.

Good show, folks! Keep trying to bolster this timeline!!
 
So as far as divergences go, I believe I am at a loss. I do not want to with a stereotypical reason. I'm thinking, however, a bit more of an immigration from North Africa due to the French policy of not allowing Muslim Arabs in Algeria French citizenship. However, this would diminish the particularly Levantine Arab cultural effect that American Islam and American Arab society was taking in my timeline. Anymore suggestions?
 
So as far as divergences go, I believe I am at a loss. I do not want to with a stereotypical reason. I'm thinking, however, a bit more of an immigration from North Africa due to the French policy of not allowing Muslim Arabs in Algeria French citizenship. However, this would diminish the particularly Levantine Arab cultural effect that American Islam and American Arab society was taking in my timeline. Anymore suggestions?

Some type of American/Ottoman friendship? Henry Ford, for one, got along very well with Muslim Arabs and had many of them working in his factories, which was the core of the current Dearborn, MI Arabic community. If there are close and friendly ties between the U.S. and the Ottomans in the mid-1800s, a lot of workers from Syria and Iraq might come to America as workers.
 

Hendryk

Banned
However, this would diminish the particularly Levantine Arab cultural effect that American Islam and American Arab society was taking in my timeline. Anymore suggestions?
If you want to keep a strong Levantine flavor to American Islam, how about looking for a way to have the ethnic Turks expelled from Greek territories with the Treaty of Lausanne being allowed to migrate to the US?
 

Faeelin

Banned
Would global society be better *SOCIALLY* off with or without a WWII? What is the consensus.

TBH, there isn't one. I think you can make a good case that things would be roughly the same in America, but Europe would probably be rather more conservative.
 
Exerpt from a college essay on American mosque architecture

Happy Eid to Muslims and non-Muslims alike! In light of the holiday, I thought I'd post a little update/idea that'd been floating around in my mind since I visited a small Congregationalist chapel in New Hampshire a few weeks ago. Shocking how plain, and, well, "mosque-able," it was :)
-Avicenna



Maryam A. Alabadee
September 13, 1999
U.S. History
Mr. Jensen
"Where We Worship"

The Mosque

Everyday Sunday morning, millions of American attend Services. For the majority of Americans, it is in a church- the house of Reformed worship. However, being the melting-pot it is, there also exist other places that hold Service. Catholics in their parishes, and Jews in their synagogues- however, after the church, the mosque is the second most popular house of worship in the United States. Mosques usually hold Sunday morning prayer at 9AM, followed by a sermon, and Scripture lessons: all of which compromise the Service, which usually lasts about an hour and a half.

Originally, mosques in the United States were built like they were in the Levant, where the majority of the first American Muslims came from. They were small, built of stone or brick, and had small domes, and prayer-towers. The entire mosque was usually one roomed, with white walls, and no chairs. However, due to anti-Ottoman feelings during the First Great War, what has become known as the Americanization of mosques in the United States occurred. In 1918, the Muslim American Congress summoned the Second Jihad Council of Pierre, now known as the Second Clerical Council, and eventually issued the Fatwa as-Tihhab, or the Law of Assimilation. In provided for the translation of all religious vocabulary into English; architectural plans for new small town American church-style mosques (equipped with widely spaced pews, with prayer rugs in between); translation of the Koran into English; and the suspension of much of "Sharia" law indefinitely.

The first post-Clerical style mosque to be built was in New England, in the town of Bedford, Massachusetts. Built on the foundation of a meeting house called Masjid as-Sayyidah Zaynab, Saint Zainab's Mosque of Bedford (see image below) became the model for small-town, and suburban mosque building until the Andalusian Revival style came abouts in the 1960's. The Council drew up the designs to rebuild, and further build urban mosques, largely built in the Richardsonian Romanesque-style, specifically avoiding the Moorish Revival which many in Muslim Community of the early 20th century felt would offend the majority American population...

mosqueremix-1.jpg

 
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Just wanted to add some stuff I had in my mind lately. Still thinking of a time line...

Although, I have an idea, which I would like some input on- although the original community of Muslims are Levantine in this scenario, what if we have massive emmigration from the Muslim Soviet regions during the 1920's and 1930's?

Of course this would greatly change the American Muslim culture from a Mediterranean/Levantine/Arab one to a more Persian one...

Comments? Ideas? Critiques?

Much thanks :)

Eid Mubarak to all!
 
Eid Saeed (always my favorite Eid-greeting. It even rhymes!)
Thank you. Hope all is well with you :)

Regarding your previous question about increasing Levantine immigration, emmigation from Lebanon and Syria was quite substantial in OTL, but a good number returned home - also, a large proportion were Christian Arabs. A more favorable situation in America would increase the proportion that moved, and also stayed.

If Levantine Arab culture predominates, it's OK to have arrivals from other areas, as they can be assimilated.

As an example of this, the majority of Jews in the Ottoman Empire were Sephardic and Ladino-speaking - and this predominant culture was able to absorb and assimilate a relatively substantial number of non-Ladino speaking Mediterranean Jews and Ashkenazi Jews from Europe.
 

Hendryk

Banned
Nice to see you around! :)

Mosques usually hold Sunday morning prayer at 9AM, followed by a sermon, and Scripture lessons: all of which compromise the Service, which usually lasts about an hour and a half.
Is this in complement of, or as replacement for, the usual Friday service?

Nice touch about the Americanization of mosques. There are numerous historical precedents of mosques being built in the local architectural style anyway, so I don't think that would require any doctrinal accommodation.
 

Faeelin

Banned
However, due to anti-Ottoman feelings during the First Great War, what has become known as the Americanization of mosques in the United States occurred.

I wonder if you'd really see anti-Ottoman feelings. Hrmm. How many Muslims
are there in 1917, anyway? It might have some weird knock on effects at Versailles and in American involvement in the middle east, down the road.

Is it necessary to translate the Koran into English? The Catholic Mass was in Latin until the 1960s, after all.

This is a really cool idea.

Oh, and have a happy holiday.
 
Oh yes it's back.

I love this stuff, although I'd agree with others that figuring out the cause of increased Muslim immigration to the US ought to be done. After all, an unstable Ottoman Empire would also likely mean more immigrants from the Balkans, too.
 
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