Orson Scott Card's Empire

Kidblast · Dec 4, 2006

I've just finished this book, and it's billed as an alternate history...

Here is the book's summary from the inside cover:

Book Description
The American Empire has grown too fast, and the fault lines at home are stressed to the breaking point. The war of words between Right and Left has collapsed into a shooting war, though most people just want to be left alone.

The battle rages between the high-technology weapons on one side, and militia foot-soldiers on the other, devastating the cities, and overrunning the countryside. But the vast majority, who only want the killing to stop and the nation to return to more peaceful days, have technology, weapons and strategic geniuses of their own.

When the American dream shatters into violence, who can hold the people and the government together? And which side will you be on?

The Good:

Thoughprovoking premise about the power of ideas, fanatiscism, and political polarization
Plenty of Action
Plot line interesting to say the least
Based in today's America

The Bad:

After the initial premise, totally unbelievable
Card kills his main character halfway through the book
No character development
should be twice as long
Leaves too many questions unanswered
Rebels are so stupid it's criminal
US government seems really really weak

The Ugly:

Some nutjobs are going to think this could happen
The ending is very ambiguous to say the least
Card's sermonizing throughout the book, kinda like the later Tom Clancy novels

My verdict: A bad edition of Clancy's Debt of Honor and Executive Orders mashed together with a n00b's version of a future civil war. Needs about 300 more pages to get better, but the premise is a good one. Card is hardly subtle in his theme either, and should let the readers make their own conclusions instead of shoving it down their throats.

Faeelin · Dec 4, 2006

This is the one where the Princeton University Professor tries to take over the world, right?

Kidblast · Dec 4, 2006

Faeelin said:
This is the one where the Princeton University Professor tries to take over the world, right?

Yeah....

Prunesquallor · Dec 4, 2006

Card strikes me as a reasonably talented writer who gets into the saga habit- the ENDERS sequence and those set in an alternate colonial America for starters. Also with a few bees in his bonnet. I seem to remember a furious attack on the American cultural historian Paul Fussell in F&SF MAGAZINE. I couldn't think what this was doing there. Of no interest to the average reader. Then I remembered that Card is a Mormon and Fussell has no especial regard for the sect.

marl_d · Dec 6, 2006

he is very preachy, just read the book about Columbus...interesting premise....but shoves his ideas down your throat

brecarious · Dec 6, 2006

Shoves his idea's down your throat?

Eh him and every other A-H Writer I've enjoyed reading.

Personally I liked this one. And I like how they were ambiguous about wether or not the Prof is taking America into tis Imperial stage.

Quite frankly Im interested in finding out how the world O. Scott is writing advances from this point so if he decides to go the saga route on this one he will have my money again.

MerryPrankster · Dec 6, 2006

I've looked at the Amazon entry and it seems rather partisan.

I've got two unfinished novels dealing with a somewhat similar premise, and although they get their political jabs in, I hope they're not THAT heavy-handed.

Underboss_3 · Dec 6, 2006

I ran into this book at B&N yesterday and picked it up. I haven't had much time to read it yet. I passed up Eric Flint's new one, so I hope this is worth it. I've never read anything by Card.

iopgod · Dec 7, 2006

Underboss_3 said:
I ran into this book at B&N yesterday and picked it up. I haven't had much time to read it yet. I passed up Eric Flint's new one, so I hope this is worth it. I've never read anything by Card.

I would have betted on the Flint, myself... Cards early work (enders Game etc.) is good solid SF with a not-terribly-subtle but still quite readable message of "everybody has a right to live, even totally horrible aliens who are trying to exterminate the human race shouldn't be exterminated back", but some people find it hard to ignore the "homosexuals are evil" kookiness he came up with more recently.

Kidblast · Dec 7, 2006

Underboss_3 said:
I ran into this book at B&N yesterday and picked it up. I haven't had much time to read it yet. I passed up Eric Flint's new one, so I hope this is worth it. I've never read anything by Card.

Which one, I just read Cannon Law, and that was very good.

It's probably not worth it...

Prunesquallor · Dec 8, 2006

CANNON LAW was "very good"? I have a vision of a 19th century style visit to a lunatic asylum. The administrator is guiding the sightseers: "Over there, we've got the Napoleons, here are the Jesuses, and this special section (careful, they bite) is for those who believe the later 1632 vols have any merit."

Kidblast · Dec 8, 2006

Prunesquallor said:
CANNON LAW was "very good"? I have a vision of a 19th century style visit to a lunatic asylum. The administrator is guiding the sightseers: "Over there, we've got the Napoleons, here are the Jesuses, and this special section (careful, they bite) is for those who believe the later 1632 vols have any merit."

Huh????

While it wasn't the same caliber as 1632, it's not a bad book. It's a whole bunch better than this Empire book for instance.

Underboss_3 · Dec 8, 2006

Kidblast said:
Which one, I just read Cannon Law, and that was very good.

It's probably not worth it...

I passed up 1824: Arkansas War

I had one in each hand, and checked out the covers. It was a native American guy vs helicopters shooting lasers at the Capital Building. So, I literally judged a book by its cover.

It probably won't be worth it, but oh well.

Ivan Druzhkov · Dec 9, 2006

Well, Mr. John J. Reilly has got his hands on it, and his main complaint seems to be that it's not "smart" enough. Personally, I have no problem with the basic concept, but the buzz I've been hearing makes it sound more like a quick buck for Card than something really thought-provoking.

Jesse · Dec 10, 2006

You can read the first five chapters online here:

http://www.hatrack.com/osc/books/empire/empire_01.shtml

marl_d · Dec 12, 2006

i wasn't meaning that he couldn't have his political views in the book and point them out...it's just that every other paragraph was, "this is evil, that is evil, Western Civilization destroyed the world, and it was all Columbus' fault!!!" is what i was meaning.

reddie · Dec 30, 2006

brecarious said:
Shoves his idea's down your throat?

Eh him and every other A-H Writer I've enjoyed reading.

Personally I liked this one. And I like how they were ambiguous about wether or not the Prof is taking America into tis Imperial stage.

Quite frankly Im interested in finding out how the world O. Scott is writing advances from this point so if he decides to go the saga route on this one he will have my money again.

I'm not all the way through the book yet, but it seems like an interesting potboiler. One thing it isn't, though, is actually about a Second American Civil War. From what I can tell, it's basically a James Bond-style supervillain taking over New York City.

The minute I saw the mechs and the hovercycles I figured, aha--I bet Scott's working on spec! And so, apparently, he is.

Ivan Druzhkov · Apr 30, 2007

I've decided to give this one a shot, more out of idle curiousity than anything. So far, the basic ideas are interesting enough, but right now I'm finding the action scenes a little flat, and some of the character's politicizing is heavy-handed (though seeing as how the book is about partisan differences causing bloodshed, that may be the correct way to write them.) It's a pretty breezy read so far, so I should be able to get it done by the weekend.

Oh, and to get myself in the mood, I spent last Saturday night watching Seven Days in May. Still an awesome movie.

Ivan Druzhkov · May 3, 2007

Well, I finished reading it Wednesday night (much faster than usual!), and I have to agree that it's a potentially good idea with a lousy execution. The problem I kept running into was the fact that, despite the current level of stupidity in American political debate, it's not quite at the point when either side is ready to start murdering the other. It's not like the 1850s, where states were essentially in the middle of de facto civil wars, congressmen went at each other with hickory walking sticks*. In the novel, the US just goes crazy at the drop of a hat. I wouldn't mind reading a novel that gradually shows American public life degrades to the point where legal precedents are simply ignored and people have no problem with attacking one another. Of course, such a story would take a lot longer than Card has alloted in his story.

In Card's favor, I will note that he did try to show that both sides were made up of mostly sane people, though I would have liked it a little clearer. I do think that Brussels is still waiting for an apology cake, however.

Finally, I thought the action was a little lifeless. The prose just seemed to move from event to event, without much in the way of description or imagery. Perhaps it's just a personal preference, but I'd like my adventures to have a little more substance to them.

Overall, it was a...meh.

*Where have all the traditions gone?

Ivan Druzhkov · May 7, 2007

As an addendum to my previous post, I would like to add that I would've liked to see what exactly happened to Manhattan under the Progressive Restoration. From what I read, it seems like the "progressives" swooped down and liberated a bunch of people who didn't know they were being oppressed in the first place. Personally, I think the setting would make a nice setting for a satire of of the loopier aspects of left-wing thought, akin to what you'd find in a Christopher Buckley novel. Alas, it was not meant to be.