Most Diverse Possible "Founding Fathers"?

[Workable Goblin]

Apropos of some reading I've been doing lately, I was reminded of a post I made about five years ago discussing how you could create a Founding Father (of the United States) who was a black man:

Obviously, whoever it is cannot be a slave and must have some degree of education to place him on top of society at the time. I propose that someone like James Forten emerge a generation earlier; a free black man who manages to establish a successful business and as a result earn a substantial fortune before the beginning of the Revolutionary War. Due to his business contacts he is involved in the liberty movement before the war, and becomes one of the revolution's major financiers during it, akin to Robert Morris in reality. If you like, throw in how he buys slaves from some slaveholders, frees them, and forms an "African Regiment" using his own funds (likely to some dismay). After the war he presses for an end to slavery (unsuccessfully) and makes some contributions to the Constitution, but is forgotten and glossed over after his death, except among African-Americans (Robert Morris was forgotten even without being black, so this wouldn't even take much racism). Starting in the 1960s, however, he is rehabilitated and promoted as an icon of black participation in the Revolution, so that by the ATL 2015 he is one of the best-known "Founding Fathers" along with Washington, Jefferson, and Franklin.

Even better would be if you could make him a lawyer somehow and critical to the legal side of the process, in drafting the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution, but that might be too hard. The fact that James Forten did exist shows that it probably isn't impossible to have a similar successful black businessman a generation earlier, and I doubt that the Revolution would turn down money given the straits they got into.

Reading that, however, got me thinking: how could you maximize the overall diversity of the Founding Fathers? Inevitably most of them will be Protestant white men just from the demographics of the free population of the colonies, but surely there are possibilities for at least Native Americans to also be prominently involved, and as I just wrote it's not completely implausible to come up with a scenario in which a black man is counted among them. Looking further afield, are there any plausible scenarios for some Founding "Father" to be a woman? Muslim? Perhaps some other demographic group I haven't thought of? And how could you come up with a plausible way to make several of these scenarios be true at once, for instance having several Native Americans be prominent Founding Fathers along with one or two Jews, a black man, perhaps a woman, etc. etc.?

 

[Amadeus]

Apropos of some reading I've been doing lately, I was reminded of a post I made about five years ago discussing how you could create a Founding Father (of the United States) who was a black man:



Reading that, however, got me thinking: how could you maximize the overall diversity of the Founding Fathers? Inevitably most of them will be Protestant white men just from the demographics of the free population of the colonies, but surely there are possibilities for at least Native Americans to also be prominently involved, and as I just wrote it's not completely implausible to come up with a scenario in which a black man is counted among them. Looking further afield, are there any plausible scenarios for some Founding "Father" to be a woman? Muslim? Perhaps some other demographic group I haven't thought of? And how could you come up with a plausible way to make several of these scenarios be true at once, for instance having several Native Americans be prominent Founding Fathers along with one or two Jews, a black man, perhaps a woman, etc. etc.?

In order to do this, you'd need to change the way the U.S. was colonized and the socio-economic structure that resulted from it. The U.S. in 1776 was a highly stratified society with rigid hierarchies along class, race, gender, and religious lines. The fact that the IOTL Founding Fathers were almost entirely white male Protestant planters, lawyers, merchants, etc was a product of how American society functioned at the time.

To get a more diverse collection of Founders, you'd need to fundamentally change how America functioned in the 18th century.

 

[Wendell]

It's easier to get a Jewish founding father than a Muslim one.

 

[Wendell]

Or, he comes to America earlier (but likely still converts)

 

[Yuhaoyang]

If Quebec joined the revolution，there would surely be a francophone catholic Founding Father. A Founding Father of Jewish，Dutch or German culture is also doable. Other than those it would be much more difficult.

 

[Workable Goblin]

It's easier to get a Jewish founding father than a Muslim one.

There was a Jewish Founding Father, so naturally (there is a reason I specifically didn't mention Jews!). But that's sort of the point--what plausible changes could be imagined to result in a Muslim Founding Father?

In order to do this, you'd need to change the way the U.S. was colonized and the socio-economic structure that resulted from it. The U.S. in 1776 was a highly stratified society with rigid hierarchies along class, race, gender, and religious lines. The fact that the IOTL Founding Fathers were almost entirely white male Protestant planters, lawyers, merchants, etc was a product of how American society functioned at the time.

Well, naturally, but note that I specifically said that "inevitably most of them would still be white Protestant men". The question isn't how to make the Founding Fathers look like the modern U.N., just how to have some fringe, one might say, of individuals who don't fit that description, in just the same way that Haym Salomom was Jewish and the Carrolls were Catholic IOTL.

 

[Wendell]

Or, he comes to America earlier (but likely still converts)

There was a Jewish Founding Father, so naturally (there is a reason I specifically didn't mention Jews!). But that's sort of the point--what plausible changes could be imagined to result in a Muslim Founding Father?


Well, naturally, but note that I specifically said that "inevitably most of them would still be white Protestant men". The question isn't how to make the Founding Fathers look like the modern U.N., just how to have some fringe, one might say, of individuals who don't fit that description, in just the same way that Haym Salomom was Jewish and the Carrolls were Catholic IOTL.

See my subsequent post (quoted above)

 

[Byzantion]

Apropos of some reading I've been doing lately, I was reminded of a post I made about five years ago discussing how you could create a Founding Father (of the United States) who was a black man:



Reading that, however, got me thinking: how could you maximize the overall diversity of the Founding Fathers? Inevitably most of them will be Protestant white men just from the demographics of the free population of the colonies, but surely there are possibilities for at least Native Americans to also be prominently involved, and as I just wrote it's not completely implausible to come up with a scenario in which a black man is counted among them. Looking further afield, are there any plausible scenarios for some Founding "Father" to be a woman? Muslim? Perhaps some other demographic group I haven't thought of? And how could you come up with a plausible way to make several of these scenarios be true at once, for instance having several Native Americans be prominent Founding Fathers along with one or two Jews, a black man, perhaps a woman, etc. etc.?

Have some founding fathers partly being of Native ancestry.

 

[GuildedAgeNostalgia]

Have some founding fathers partly being of Native ancestry.

This shouldn't be difficult. Many Delaware Indians decided to actively join Colonial Pennsylvania civilization than resist/flee west.

 

[Workable Goblin]

Have some founding fathers partly being of Native ancestry.

I already mentioned that in the post you were quoting ("surely there are possibilities for at least Native Americans to also be prominently involved"). The point is to suggest ways in which that might happen, for example people who were close to joining the Revolution OTL but did not or who died prematurely or so on and so forth, not merely to propose demographic possibilities...

 

[Sarufiyyun]

Have some founding fathers partly being of Native ancestry.

Most of the old Virginia families claimed to be descended from Thomas Rolfe, the son of Pocahontas and John Rolfe.

 

[dartingfog]

I already mentioned that in the post you were quoting ("surely there are possibilities for at least Native Americans to also be prominently involved"). The point is to suggest ways in which that might happen, for example people who were close to joining the Revolution OTL but did not or who died prematurely or so on and so forth, not merely to propose demographic possibilities...

If there were to be a Native American founding father, I would suggest Daniel Nimham. Most Native Americans who fought in the Revolutionary War were allied with the British, but Nimham was one of the few who fought on the Patriot side. He was a chief of the Wappinger people, and he may have met George Washington at Valley Forge. In OTL, he died in battle in 1778. Had he lived, he would have been 63 years old at the time of the Constitution's writing (in 1789), in line with other Founding Fathers.

 

[GuildedAgeNostalgia]

If Florida is included in the revolution (it was owned by Britain at the time since the 7YW), could we see Hispanic founding fathers?

I know most Spanish citizens left for Cuba in 1763, but some did remain.

 

[Neal Caffrey]

If Florida is included in the revolution (it was owned by Britain at the time since the 7YW), could we see Hispanic founding fathers?

I know most Spanish citizens left for Cuba in 1763, but some did remain.

You could have, at best, someone like Francisco de Miranda or in a really weird universe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/José_Antonio_Galán or Juan Francisco Berbeo apart from them I am unsure if there are ny other people that would be able to participate

 

[PNWKing]

I don't know, but would it be possible for Jefferson to delegate his seat to Sally Hemings, who becomes the Black Founding Mother that we didn't know we needed until June 2020.

 

[Pauh the federalist]

Better swedish colonisation around deliware In the prior centery could probably get you some scandinavian seeing as it's just down stream from otl philidalpia.

New Sweden - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Revachah]

“All Free Men are created Equal” Crispus Attucks and Chief Nimhan are diefied like Tamanend aka St Tammany and are seen as great spirits of Independence & Freedom

This allows the enfranchisement of Lemuel Haynes and Prince Whipple who are given the opportunity to be recognized as Founding Fathers advancing free people of colors social standing in the new born United States

 

[Byzantion]

Apropos of some reading I've been doing lately, I was reminded of a post I made about five years ago discussing how you could create a Founding Father (of the United States) who was a black man:



Reading that, however, got me thinking: how could you maximize the overall diversity of the Founding Fathers? Inevitably most of them will be Protestant white men just from the demographics of the free population of the colonies, but surely there are possibilities for at least Native Americans to also be prominently involved, and as I just wrote it's not completely implausible to come up with a scenario in which a black man is counted among them. Looking further afield, are there any plausible scenarios for some Founding "Father" to be a woman? Muslim? Perhaps some other demographic group I haven't thought of? And how could you come up with a plausible way to make several of these scenarios be true at once, for instance having several Native Americans be prominent Founding Fathers along with one or two Jews, a black man, perhaps a woman, etc. etc.?

Maybe a man of recent North African Moorish ancestry ? Maybe the son or grandchild of a Babary prisinor reconverted to Christianity or Crypto-Muslim. Or maybe somebody with at least a quarter African-American ancestry from the South.

 

[GuildedAgeNostalgia]

Maybe a man of recent North African Moorish ancestry ? Maybe the son or grandchild of a Babary prisonor reconverted to Christianity or Crypto-Muslim. Or maybe somebody with at least a quarter African-American ancestry from the South.

Morocco was the first country to recognize the US. Perhaps they send a Lafayette type figure to help out during the revolution

 

[DTF955Baseballfan]

I need to get ready for church, but quickly, John Adams had a good deal of respect for Abigail, though he of course didn't push women's rights the way he could have. If he were to promote her intelligence and education earlier, let's say that she is involved in something with the revolution while John is sick, then by the time of the Continental Congress she could be respected enough to have some say in John's approaches. She could then become involvd in the Massachusetts Constitutional Convention of 1787, which featured some things which were very similar to the eventual United States won. It would have to be slow and very gradual but by 1787 you could have her with some influence, and then maybe have her outlive John and get a senate seat if he was in the Senate at the time he died, let's say during the War of 1812?