Map Thread XII

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I found a better base map thanks to Thande. I added leader names to help explain things a bit too:

Critiques are certainly welcome, still. :D

Qinghai is more in the Tibetian cultural sphere. For example,the Dalai Lama is from Qinghai. Also Shaanxi i'd put in the Han Chinese nation.
 
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Sabot Cat

Banned
Qinghai is more in the Tibetian cultural sphere.

Thanks for your critique. =)

Qinghai was a toss up between the Tibetans, Hui and Salar Muslims, the Mongols, etc. It seems to me that the Muslim revolutionaries would come out on top because:

1) The Kingdom of Tibet is not in an expansionist frame of mind, considering the Taiping Kingdom for them simply replaced the Qing Dynasty in having suzerainty over the region. In contrast, "East Turkestan" is riding a revolutionary wave with a capable military.

2) The Kingdom of Tibet doesn't have as much geographical leverage as the army of "East Turkestan".

3) For similar reasons for the Muslim Ma clique took over during the Warlord era, many of the most capable generals in the area were Hui Muslim or led Hui Muslim armies. In OTL they were loyal to the Qing Dynasty, but if they were to collapse, generals like Ma Anliang and Dong Fuxiang will likely help consolidate Qinghai into "East Turkestan".

For example,the Dalai Lama is from Qinghai.

The incumbent Dalai Lama in this timeline's 1858 [and OTL 1860], Trinley Gyatso, was born in, lived in, and died in Tibet. The same is true of his predecessor.

Also Shaanxi i'd put in the Han Chinese nation.

"East Turkestan" is sub-ordinate to the Taiping Kingdom; however, Hui revolutionaries were complicit in casting off the vestiges of Qing rule, and had their military deeds recognized in the form of limited autonomy in the province. Divisions are along more religious lines than ethnic, further. Nonetheless, I suppose it makes sense because the region had never been autonomous before in the history of China and it seems more likely that Taiping would conquer it first.
 
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It's almost like he randomly typed it in only making sure it filled a line, almost. It has too many vowels to think it was completely random
 
Dough. Nut. Quote. Images.

Hmm.....doughnuts.....:p
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Sabot Cat

Banned
It's almost like he randomly typed it in only making sure it filled a line, almost. It has too many vowels to think it was completely random

Yeah, you would think he did... but, nope, all of the Khalkha Jebtsundamba Khutuktus had names like that. ._.
  • 1635 - 1723 Öndör Gegeen Zanabazar (Blo-bzang-bstan-pa'i-rgyal-mtshan), 1st Jebtsundamba Khutughtu
  • 1724 - 1757 Luvsandambiydonmi (Blo-bzang-bstan-pa'i-srgon-me), 2nd Jebtsundamba Khutughtu
  • 1758 - 1773 Ishdambiynyam (Ye-shes-bstan-pa'i-nyi-ma), 3rd Jebtsundamba Khutughtu
  • 1775 - 1813 Luvsantüvdenvanchug (Blo-bzang-thub-bstan-dbang-phyug), 4th Jebtsundamba Khutughtu
  • 1815 - 1841 Luvsanchültimjigmed (Blo-bzang-tshul-khrim-'jigs-med), 5th Jebtsundamba Khutughtu
  • 1843 - 1848 Luvsantüvdenchoyjijaltsan (Blo-bzang-dpal-ldan-bstan-pa), 6th Jebtsundamba Khutughtu
  • 1850 - 1868 Agvaanchoyjivanchugperenlaijamts (Ngag-dbang-chos-kyi-dbang-phyug-'phrin-las-rgya-mtsho), 7th Jebtsundamba Khutughtu
  • 1870 - 20 May 1924 Agvaanluvsanchoyjindanzanvaanchigbalsambuu (Ngag-dbang-blo-bzang-chos-rje-nyi-ma-bstan-'dzin-dbang-phyug rJe-btsun-dam-pa Bla-ma), 8th Jebtsundamba Khutughtu and Bogd Khan (b. 1869 - d. 1924)
  • 1936 - 1 March 2012 Jambalnamdolchoyjijantsan (Jampal Namdrol Chokye Gyaltsen), 9th Jebtsundamba Khutughtu (b. 1932 - d. March 1, 2012; from 1991, recognized by the Dalai Lama; in Tibet exile to 1959, then in India; died in Ulan Bator)"
 

Dorozhand

Banned
Map of Japan under the Shimazu Shogunate in the year 1910.


The battle of Toba-Fushimi ends decisively, but Tokugawa Yoshinobu is killed in action afterwards.
Seeing the country in a deadlock, and noticing that Europeans are using the situation to profit at Japan's expense, Emperor Komei, who in this timeline survives his illness, decides to appoint a new Shogunate under the Shimazu clan.

Imperialist factions side with Komei and his decision. The imperial navy and the Satsuma forces defeat those of Tokugawa loyalists led by the Aizu domain in the north and unify the country in 1869.

Komei moves his court to Kagoshima, Shimazu Tadayoshi is enthroned as the new Shogun.

The Shimazu Shogunate adopts a policy of moderate and gradual modernization. The Daimyo are kept intact, but reforms are enacted to make them more like a modern bureaucracy and unitary state.

Japan fights a war with China in the 1870s over Korea and the Ryukyus, which ends in a moderate victory. Japan annexes the southern part of Korea. In 1889, another war is fought, in which the Joseon kingdom collapses and the client Baekje Kingdom takes Liaodong with Japanese aid.

Japan forms an alliance with Imperial France after the French victory in the Franco-Prussian war. In 1891, Japan fights and wins a war with a European power. The Spanish-Japanese War sees Japan annex the Philippines from Spain. The 1905 Prusso-Japanese War sees the newly reestablished colonial ambitions of Prussia collapse after Japan takes Prussian Indochina.

Japan participates in the Scramble for Africa, claiming a parcel of Somaliland and the island of Socotra.

Relations remain good with the Russian Republic as well as the Republic of Poland, though relations with the UK appear strained as war looks to be looming on the horizon.

Shimazu3.png

Shimazu3.png
 
Map of Japan under the Shimazu Shogunate in the year 1910.
Japan participates in the Scramble for Africa, claiming a parcel of Somaliland and the island of Socotra.

Hang on...it all seemed plausible until this last bit. When did this happen? The Scramble for Africa began officially in 1885...why on earth would Japan be interested in it?
 
I found a better base map thanks to Thande. I added leader names to help explain things a bit too:



Critiques are certainly welcome, still. :D

Why is Yunnan ruled by a Sultan, I mean yes there is a traditional Muslim minority, though not only was it never particularly large (at present Muslims make-up only a little over 2% of the population), but the Panthay Rebellion would not lead to Muslims coming-out on top as the other groups would turn on them for trying.
 
Why is Yunnan ruled by a Sultan, I mean yes there is a traditional Muslim minority, though not only was it never particularly large (at present Muslims make-up only a little over 2% of the population), but the Panthay Rebellion would not lead to Muslims coming-out on top as the other groups would turn on them for trying.

In OTL Du Wenxiu was referred to as Sultan by some, but he established a government that was a mix of Yunnan / Hui Muslim officers and Han Chinese bureaucrats, and was officially tolerant of non-Muslim groups in Yunnan- including the various minorities in the province. Since this is all OTL, it's not unreasonable to propose, given the total collapse of Qing authority in the OP's scenario, that Du Wenxiu could have consolidated all of Yunnan in the Pingnanguo.
 
Nice concept, though that Africa part is mildly implausible, still interesting stuff.

"Mildly" is putting it lightly since Japan has no strategic or economic reason to participate in the Scramble. And then there's the fact that Japan has laid claim to both Socotra and Zanzibar, both of which had been British protectorates since the early 19th century and were important, strategic locations for the Royal Navy (Socotra protected the Red Sea and sea routes to India and Zanzibar was useful in stopping the slave trade). It's frankly downright impossible without an earlier PoD.
 

Sabot Cat

Banned
In OTL Du Wenxiu was referred to as Sultan by some, but he established a government that was a mix of Yunnan / Hui Muslim officers and Han Chinese bureaucrats, and was officially tolerant of non-Muslim groups in Yunnan- including the various minorities in the province. Since this is all OTL, it's not unreasonable to propose, given the total collapse of Qing authority in the OP's scenario, that Du Wenxiu could have consolidated all of Yunnan in the Pingnanguo.

Thanks for explaining this on my behalf~ :)

Pingnan Guo persisted in OTL, even without the Qing Dynasty collapsing, for sixteen years.
 
Thanks for explaining this on my behalf~ :)

Pingnan Guo persisted in OTL, even without the Qing Dynasty collapsing, for sixteen years.
With pleasure! Among the various timelines that I am never going to get around to writing is a Taiping victory TL (though with the Hong family still at the helm and Shi Dakai at best a Yuan Shikai figure), so I've got a bunch of notes, sources, etc. lying around and I figure yours is a good cause to do something with that knowledge.
(Incidentally, the provisional map I made while brainstorming looks uncomfortably similar to yours, down to the truncated Zhili provincial border between China and Mongolia / Manchuria and a Russian puppet Manchu state. great minds etc. :p )
 

Sabot Cat

Banned
With pleasure! Among the various timelines that I am never going to get around to writing is a Taiping victory TL (though with the Hong family still at the helm and Shi Dakai at best a Yuan Shikai figure), so I've got a bunch of notes, sources, etc. lying around and I figure yours is a good cause to do something with that knowledge.

That's pretty cool, and I wish you luck on your timeline in the future. :)

(Incidentally, the provisional map I made while brainstorming looks uncomfortably similar to yours, down to the truncated Zhili provincial border between China and Mongolia / Manchuria and a Russian puppet Manchu state. great minds etc. :p )

Heh, the great mind thinking alike with you is Seleucus [who recommended a Russian puppet Manchu state]. :)
 

Arkocento

Donor
A more urgent union

WIP circa early 1600s
Still Circling the drain with Uber Poland, but ultimately focusing on the New World.
England is really small, but has really large colonies? Why?
Simple answer, English is no longer the majority north of Norfolk.


KTaXvsG.png
 
WIP circa early 1600s
Still Circling the drain with Uber Poland, but ultimately focusing on the New World.
England is really small, but has really large colonies? Why?
Simple answer, English is no longer the majority north of Norfolk.

What are you using to edit?
 
WIP circa early 1600s
Still Circling the drain with Uber Poland, but ultimately focusing on the New World.
England is really small, but has really large colonies? Why?
Simple answer, English is no longer the majority north of Norfolk.

Do you mean Norfolk in OTL's UK or OTL's Virginia?
 
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