Manstein in Africa version 2

BlairWitch749

Banned
A COMPROMISED CHOICE (Prolouge) - It is tragic that the Fuehrer should have the whole nation behind him with the single exception of the Army generals. In my opinion it is only by action that they can now atone for their faults of lack of character and discipline.- Alfred Jodl
At the fuhrer's military conference January 1941

Present were Hitler, Jodl, Keitel, Von Thoma, Halder, Brauchitsch, Goring, Raeder and their associated staffs discussing the upcoming deployment of German troops to Africa

Hitler: General Von Thoma please tell all the men here what you've told me about your visit to the Libyan front
Thoma: Yes my fuhrer. The Italians have been completely routed. Their 10th army was lost with over 100,000 prisoners, and hundreds of tanks and artillery pieces against just two or three British divisions which hardly lost any men at all. The British have complete air superiority and without our help the Italians will be quickly pushed out of the entire country. I recommend the introduction of German ground troops which has already been approved along with air units. It would seem 4 mechanized divisions would be the maximum that could be supported and the minimum for victory in Egypt.
Hitler: I have allotted two formations for the endevour along with air groups; the 5th light and the 15th panzer; the rest are needed for Russia
Thoma: That may not be enough my fuhrer. If we just wish to block to the British and not conduct any offensive operations only one division would be needed. Any other course except for one division or four is not advisable. It would be better for us to give up on the whole enterprise and let the Italians deal with it themselves.
Hitler: I have promised Signor Mussolini an expeditionary corps and will honor that arrangement, I do accept your idea for 4 divisions to be sent on the condition that after victory in Egypt they be made available for operations against Russia. Generalfeldmarshal Keitel please arrange for the 3rd motorized and 7th Panzer division to be sent to Naples for work in Africa
Keitel: I will issue the orders
Hitler: Now we need a commander for Africa. I am opening up the table to suggestions
Jodl: General von Funk has seen the front for himself as our observer and would be well positioned to arrange a command based on the staff he already has in place
Hitler: No I don't want him, the Duce thinks he is defeatist; this mission must be a show of force to our ally as well
Keitel: Generaldepanzertruppen Guderian satisfies the requirement of showing commitment; he is one of our most famous commanders and good at handling panzers
Hitler: (Thinking and rubbing his mustache)... no I can't spare him from Russia, I need him to move the troops like lightening on the central axis; what do you gentlemen think about putting Rommel in Africa; he certainly proved he can handle commanding a panzer division in France
Braustich: Rommel is too far foward and out of touch, putting him in an independent command isn't advisable
Jodl: Rommel also established his military reputation, not only defeating, but humiliating the Italian army, appointing him could cause some serious recriminations between our staff and the commando supremo; and considering our mission makes our expeditionary force their guests in the theater, that is a problem I suggest we don't knowingly put ourselves into
Von Thoma: If I may my fuhrer?
Hitler: Go ahead Generalmajor
Von Thoma: I would like to suggest General Von Manstein for the post; he is a superb organizer and staffer
Hitler: What do you all think of Von Manstein for Africa
Jodl: The position requires as much skill in organization as it does in combat command, and Von Manstein is the best organizer in the army
Keitel: I agree, as our former quartermaster he would be able to tackle some of the serious challenges we will face in africa in a way not many other officers could
Goering: But can he command panzer divisions
Braustich: His command of 38th corps was exemplary
Hitler: And don't forget all his memo's on sending the panzers through the Ardennes; he certainly saw a brilliant opportunity there...alright, Manstein it is; have him summoned here right away so that he can be given his orders before he departs for Italy

to be continued

thoughts?
 

BlairWitch749

Banned
MY FIRST OBSERVATIONS (Chapter 1) - We have lost a battle, but I assure to you that we will not lose the war! I cannot say more at the present moment although I know the losses are crowded in your minds. That this happened does not hold importance. What counts is not to lose confidence in the future of Germany. At the same time everyone must understand the gravity of the situation. This moment will be enough to distinguish the true men from the inept ones. Every soldier has the same responsibilities: if the advancing one falls, another must be ready to take his place in order to go on - Walter Model

January 1941

Manstein was picked up by Hitler's military adjudant Oberst Schmundt in a fast HE-111 bomber for a quick tour of the Libyan front before his briefing with Hitler. He viewed the reorganizing Italian 5th army approximately 150,000 strong. He also saw the British were sitting supine and a good front could be held around the gulf of Sirte.

The Via Balbia streched out like a long thread throughout the endless sandy tracks. Manstein was quick to understand that fighting in the Libyan desert would be like a battle at sea with little if any restrictions on speed or directions of movement other than provisions; it would be the ultimate test to put everything he had been taught for 4 decades into use, and to put the army's foremost ideas on mechanized warfare to the test.

Manstein was shocked when the recently deployed X Fleigerkorps was not bombing British convoys steaming into Bengahzi.

We have been asked by the Commando Supremo not to bomb the city. They say much of the property is Italian

I don't give a damn, the port is helping the British we must attack.

I have my orders Herr General.

I will get you new orders

Manstein placed a quick phone call to Hitler's HQ

My fuhrer the Italians will not let the Luftwaffe bomb Bengahzi. They say much of the city is Italian property. During my flight over I saw three big British cargo ships being unloaded in the port.

I will instruct Goring to give the Bombers authorization to fly. Do not worry about this kind of interference again General Von Manstein. I shall contact the duce and make sure the war is actually taken seriously

Manstein was a general without troops for now. The 5th light wouldn't begin arriving till February and the rest of his troops would take another couple months past that assuming the Reggia Marina could guard the convoys. He would have to make sure they were safely delivered.

Manstein arrived at Hitler's military HQ the next day for his briefing and promotion.

Hitler: I am giving you 4 divisions Manstein. I expect victory in Egypt in no uncertain terms. Your first objective will be the Suez Canal then additional forces will be provided for a drive through the Middle East so you can threaten Russia from the south.
Manstein: A most ambitious objective my fuhrer. I am already exploring the operation possibilities
Hitler: You will need a commander for 7th Panzer division. Rommel will be getting a corps in Russia. Von Ravenstein will be promoted to division commander in another unit so he will be unavailable.
Manstein: May I select my subordinate my fuhrer?
Hitler: Who do you suggest to command 7th Panzer
Manstein: If the fuhrer is giving me the choice I would like to request Hermann Balck of the inspectorate formally of 1st Rifle Regiment/1st Panzer Division
Hitler: Guderian said he was an excellent line officer I have no objection the appointment will be approved. You have your orders Manstein. The Reichsmarshal will accompany you to Rome and then to Naples aboard his private train. He will make all the necessary arrangements for you. I have ordered him to give you maximum air support since we are committing to victory in Egypt. These forces will assist you until they are needed for our decisive fight against Russia. Do not waste them! Dismissed!

to be continued....
 

Jotun

Yay! As I feared the original series to have died quietly, I do look forward to the new version :)
 

Julian

Sounds good. I hope you don't have Mannstein and Hitler getting too friendly. Hitler never respected Manstein and the other "vons" that much, and even when Manstein won him some brilliant victories Hitler never really favored him over men like Model. I think it's also dubious that Manstein could achieve a victory in North Africa; even if he destroys or severely defeats the British logistics dictate that his forces will have to halt before Alexandria and Egypt proper. A bit more airpower won't change the fact that Libya was never built up enough to support such large formations overland. Further, actually reaching the Suez would be far beyond German capabilities logistically. Manstein can win battles just like Rommel, but he can't build ports and road or conjure up a better Italian merchant marine with his bare hands.
 

BlairWitch749

Banned
Julian said:
Sounds good. I hope you don't have Mannstein and Hitler getting too friendly. Hitler never respected Manstein and the other "vons" that much, and even when Manstein won him some brilliant victories Hitler never really favored him over men like Model. I think it's also dubious that Manstein could achieve a victory in North Africa; even if he destroys or severely defeats the British logistics dictate that his forces will have to halt before Alexandria and Egypt proper. A bit more airpower won't change the fact that Libya was never built up enough to support such large formations overland. Further, actually reaching the Suez would be far beyond German capabilities logistically. Manstein can win battles just like Rommel, but he can't build ports and road or conjure up a better Italian merchant marine with his bare hands.
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Hitler may not have liked Manstein's pedigree, however outside of Model he was arguably the most trusted general in terms of judgement in the army; there is a reason he got very imporant assignments even over more politically acceptable generals

IRL Manstein was the 3rd choice to command in Africa, but Hitler decided that he couldn't be spared from the Russian campaign; and so it fell to Rommel as choice 4.... Von Funk and Guderian being 1 and 2
 
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Kome

Kome

Been a while since i read the original. A long while actually, in fact it might have been the first timeline i read on this forum. :eek:

Anyways, it'll be interesting to see how you've changed it up this time around.
 

Julian

BlairWitch749 said:
Hitler may not have liked Manstein's pedigree, however outside of Model he was arguably the most trusted general in terms of judgement in the army; there is a reason he got very imporant assignments even over more politically acceptable generals

IRL Manstein was the 3rd choice to command in Africa, but Hitler decided that he couldn't be spared from the Russian campaign; and so it fell to Rommel as choice 4.... Von Funk and Guderian being 1 and 2
Click to expand...

Trusted yet removed in '44 just as many others had been before him. Ultimately Hitler's own judegement and predjudices mattered more than those of others; up until 1942 he listened, but he only agreed if their ideas already went with what he wanted. Manstein is no exception; Sickle Cut was approved because Hitler was already looking for an alternative, and the capture of the original plans gave him the opportunity to go with Manstein's new plans.
 

BlairWitch749

Banned
You will have all the resources at my disposal! (chapter 3) - It is humiliating to remain with our hands folded while others write history. It matters little who wins. To make a people great it is necessary to send them to battle even if you have to kick them in the pants. That is what I shall do - Benito Mussolini

At Manstein's briefing at Commando Supremo Rome Italy, January 1941,

Present were Bastico (who replaced the relieved Graziani), Badaglio, Manstein, Goring, and Balck who was picked up by Goring's train and hadn't even met his troops yet.

Bastico: We are most pleased by Germany's commitment to the theater. Your 4 divisions are the key to a successful drive to Cairo
Goring: The fuhrer's interest in your theater is only on behalf of the Duce who he considers a dear friend. Know this, we expect this campaign to be finished by the end of June at the latest Marshal.
Bastico: All assets available will be committed that aren't fighting in Greece.
Goring: We have a score to settle there too but that will be handled on our next conference. I have brought GeneralMajor Black here to assist your staff for the next few months. Your naval attache made it clear that he won't be able to ship all of our forces to Libya for several months. Balck here will command 7th Panzer which will have the longest time to wait. On GeneralderPanzertruppen Von Manstein's suggestion we are instructing him and his troops who will entrain for Naples to work with your forces. We insist that in the interest of cooperation and maintaining the highest levels of tactical prowess across both armies that all new troops being sent to the Libyan front train for at least 10 days with the men of 7th Panzer while they are available to pass on their expertise.
Bastico: We will gladly except Germany's generosity in such a manner.
Badaglio: The most important matter is assuring safe transit of your armored corps to the front. The British aircraft and submarines have proved quite pesky.
Goring: We will make arrangements to assist the Africa Corps in arriving safely and improve the anti tank capability of your forces. Please lets take a walk to your airfield I wish to show you gentlemen two weapons that will turn the tide.

The men along with interpreters and staff walked over to the small airstrip next to the headquarters to see Goring's gift.

Goring: Gentlemen allow me to present the fuhrer's great gift to cover the African convoys. This is our BF-110 heavy fighter series E. It has a solid nose with 4 MG-17 machine guns, 2 20mm cannons and under wing racks holding (4) 50kg bombs. Grossadmiral Raeder assures me that despite the small size of these bombs, the fragile nature of a submarine makes them extremely deadly if dropped on them. The armament is also sufficient to strafe British ships and keep their bombers away from our convoys. The Africa corps will be given 48 of these new machines. Half of them will be dedicated for convoy protection flying out of Sicily and Tripoli respectively. We will make the necessary arrangements that every convoy going to Africa will have at least 1 schwarm of these heavy fighters overhead at all times. They will have increased air cover over the trouble areas near the ports and near Malta.

The Italian hosts were impressed by the Luftwaffe commitment. The walked around the aircraft like they were inspecting a new car.
Goring continued:

Goring: The fuhrer in his commitment to victory in Egypt on the Duce's behalf has allocated our entire Luftflotte 2 to support our operations for the next four months. This will be over 600 aircraft at our disposal along with their associated ground crews. GeneralFeldMarshal Kesselring will command this group here from Rome. They will be dispersed between attacks on British naval units, convoy cover, direct support of the Libyan armies, and suppression of British rear areas.
General of Panzer troops Von Manstein will show you our other weapons system.
Manstein: Generals, may I present our adaptation of your L-3 tank. We had several in storage that had been lent to us during the conflict in Spain and have made an adaption that should prove excellent in Africa. This here is thee "L-3 75" Fledermaus is the nickname one of the technicians at the Krupp factory I visited named her. The superstructure as you can see has been modified and a captured French 75mm gun has been inlaid behind the armored screen. This gun has an extremely high muzzle velocity and flat trajectory so it is very accurate as an anti tank gun. I have brought with me 6 of our finest engineers and a trainload of captured guns and ammunition to begin the conversion. The fuhrer has agreed not to bother with any licenses for this weapons system since it is based off your tank. I would like to give a small demonstration

The tank crawled along into a nearby field were Manstein had set up a dummy tank as a target.

Manstein: You may fire when ready Oberfedwebel.

The cannon let off a high crack and the round left an easy to follow smoke trail as it hit the dummy tank and blew the hell out of it.

Manstein: It will have a similar effect on the British tanks that have been giving you so much trouble.
Badaglio: This is a most impressive system. How quickly can the L-3 be converted to a self propelled gun
Manstein: Once the turret is removed it can be done in 4 or 5 days without any special difficulties; the modification is rudimentary enough that even the strapped shops in africa should be able to do some of the conversions themselves once we get them the necessary materials; are there any other questions

The generals all shook their heads no

Goring: Good work head off to Naples and get things in order Manstein. You have much to do if the fuhrer's vision of victory in 4 months is to be acheived

to be continued....
 

BlairWitch749

Banned
Your reputation proceeds you (chapter 4)"If you have a good subordinate, you should give him as much work as he can handle and then leave him alone" - Erich Von Manstein

Naples Italy January 1941, Just before Manstein departs for Tripoli

Manstein: I have not given you an easy task Hermann these Italians are almost useless. I watched one of their companies train yesterday and nearly had to vomit from the lack of coordination and arrogance of their officers.
Balck: I will whip them into shape herr General Der PanzerTruppen. 7th Panzer is a great unit. They have high morale and a lot of combat experience, there could be no better unit for them to learn something about war from. Lets go watch them in action.

Balck and Manstein watched the infantry regiment of the 7th Panzer working with several companies of Italian infantry who would soon be headed to Libya as replacements. Interpreters had been liberally sprinkled... but the fact that Balck spoke passable Italian made things immensely easier to work out with Commando Supremo.

They observed one exercise close up. An eager young Italian captain was leading his infantry company to "take" a trench line position from a 7th panzer platoon. They fell in to a cleverly prepared ambush and were captured by the enterprising troops of 7th panzer division. The Italian captain was embarrassed that his command went so poorly after his instruction from the German Captain. The German Captain strutted up to him and started yelling at his interpreter so quickley that he couldn't translate the words fast enough. The message was clear that macaroni (German explative for Italian soldiers) had fucked up and was in big trouble. The German went on a 5 minute tirade and the Italian was worried about being shown up so much in front of his troops.

Balck while not impressed by the Italian maneuvering saw this situation develop and walked away from Manstein towards the action. Manstein thought he was going to play peace maker but he was completely surprised. Balck walked up to his subordinate captain who didn't even stop his tirade to look at his commanding general. Balck despite being half a foot shorter than the imposing captain strutted up to him like Soloman cometh to cleanse the temple. He walked directly between the two captains which shut the German captain up as he saw the star on his shoulders showing his rank of generalmajor. Balck then screamed for him to stand at attention.

You will apologize to this Captain! We are the guests of the Italians in this theater! Under no circumstances are you to treat them as anything other than equals! This captain wishes to learn from you not be treated like a child. The British are our enemy and don't you forget it. If I see any of this stupidity again I will line you up against a wall and shoot you myself! Do I make myself clear herr Hauptman?

The Captain sheepishly agreed knowing Balck could be liberal with a court martial by reputation

Good run the exercise again and help our friend correct his mistake.

Balck walked back to Manstein taking deep breaths to come down from his anger and flexing his aching hand.

Good lord Hermann your too old to pull a stunt like that. Next time you should just shoot him. Your teaching technique is excellent though.

A simple act will spread around the division and they will behave in the manner I see fit from now on. I swear Rommel must have let his boys have too much line on their leash. Well no matter I shall get them into the condition of my boys from first rifle regiment.

Your reputation proceeds you Hermann I have no doubts you will accomplish all the tasks I have given you.

Over the next several weeks and months 7th panzer did perform miracles. Italians graduating from their school of hard knocks got a good taste of small unit warfare and tactics, armored cooperation and anti tank combat. It was a harsh 10 day course and Balck was hard on all the men but when troops from this program would see British tanks or motorized infantry they wouldn't just run or surrender anymore.

Manstein could count on at least the new Italian troops coming into the theater having good teachers. In fact the British were no where near as challenge as the grizzled veterans of the 7th Ghost Panzer division were in small unit battles. Manstein could now trust at least a portion of his plentiful Italian infantry with important tasks like breaking through static defensive positions or withstanding attacks by motorized troops.

Balck did well in his supervisory role and whipped 7th Panzer into top form. He was itching to get into the fight and sad for all the glory that his troops were missing by not being in the first shipment of German forces to Africa. Manstein was pleased with his work and never even called him once he got to Tripoli.


to be continued...

thoughts
 

Shaby

This is nice timeline and very well written. I have just one critique - can't shake away the feeling it has a bit of hindsight ingrained. At least it looked like it did in the previous version. Funny thing there is nothing in particular I can point my finger at.

But, then again it is hard to keep hindsight out.
 

BlairWitch749

Banned
Shaby said:
This is nice timeline and very well written. I have just one critique - can't shake away the feeling it has a bit of hindsight ingrained. At least it looked like it did in the previous version. Funny thing there is nothing in particular I can point my finger at.

But, then again it is hard to keep hindsight out.
Click to expand...

I have tried to take Manstein's OTL painstaking work with the Romanians and apply it to a situation where he is sent to africa... Manstein IRL was able to get a lot out of the Romanians; and given his high regard in the general staff; they are much more likely to support him and band together to get Hitler to take Africa more seriously instead of the roadblocks they put up to the constant antagonist Rommel
 

Julian

Shaby said:
This is nice timeline and very well written. I have just one critique - can't shake away the feeling it has a bit of hindsight ingrained. At least it looked like it did in the previous version. Funny thing there is nothing in particular I can point my finger at.

But, then again it is hard to keep hindsight out.
Click to expand...

I agree, the training and equipping of the Italians really seems to be in hindsight. While Manstein did work well with the Romanian units attached to 11th Armee he didn't turn them into an efficient fighting force on par with the Germans. They were held in just as much contempt by the Germans (Not Manstein, but most other commanders) and generally ineffective due to equipment shortages as they were when they served under other commanders; their use in the Crimea was at best secondary, and the Germans always were the primary striking force. The Italians had the same problems, but compounded by an extremely inefficient and broken economic base, universally obsolete equipment, poor organization on all levels, and poorly trained and motivated soldiers and commanders. They still fought well under Rommel but never were a reliable fighting force. Equipping them is extremely difficult since Italy's economy really can't sustain such a massive effort and Germany's economy has been partially demobilized since the Fall of France, with all resources being invested into raising and equipping new divisions with captured and newly manufactured equipment.
 

abc123

Banned
The problem with all German allies ( especially those from Eastern Europe ) is that they generaly didn't give a shit for German goals of Lebensraum and didn't see any benefit for themselves or for their country. They also didn't want to die so far from home for Germany.
And no training or equipment can't change that. Training and equipment can help, but there's no way that they can become as efficient as Germans.
 
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