Lithuania-Poland

[Superdude]

How can we get the Lithuanians to be the dominant partners in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, without messing with history too much?

Also, how could this Lithuanian-Polish Commonwealth be a powerful nation in Eastern Europe and the Baltics, enough to be a powerful foe of Sweden and Russia?

Im asking for you guy's help, because I want to make a timeline that results in a Fascist(kind of) Lithuania starting some kind of enormous war.

 

[Nicole]

Well, the thing is, in OTL Poland, while smaller in size, was the superior Kingdom- it had the larger military, was more settled, etc. In fact, in OTL the first King of both Poland and Lithuania was a Lithuanian- Ladislaus II (Jagiello).
So to get a stronger Lithuanian side, I would say to convert Lithuania to Christianity, but don't unite it with Poland until later, and have a number of Grand Dukes who expand the wealth of the realm. By the time of union with Poland, it will be larger (it was OTL), but also more developed and Vilnius will be the natural capital, rather than Warsaw.

 

[Superdude]

Ok, it converts to Christianity. Was expecting that.

Have Lithuania somehow dominate Baltic trade, so perhaps the Teutonic Knights "go native" and become Balts in culture, and thus are easier to bring into some sort of Lithuanian Kingdom?

 

[Nicole]

Ok, it converts to Christianity. Was expecting that.

Have Lithuania somehow dominate Baltic trade, so perhaps the Teutonic Knights "go native" and become Balts in culture, and thus are easier to bring into some sort of Lithuanian Kingdom?

That'd be rather hard- the Teutonic Knights were rather German (hence the whole "Teutonic" thing)

However, maybe we bring the conversion back a bit, and have the Lithuanians be the ones who Christianize the Prussians and Livonians, thus they eventually assimilate into the Baltic Lithuanian culture.

 

[Superdude]

I was thinking of something more along the line of the Teutonic Knights after say 100-150 years become more Balt in culture than German. Somewhat like the Norsemen in France.

However, your second idea has alot ofmerit, and I will look into that.


Also, is there any way we can get a disproportiionate number of Jews in Lithuania? Not so much the Ashkenazi, maybe more of the Sephardic. I don't know why they would go to Lithuania (maybe Lithuania becomes a very rich country because of a monopoly on Baltic trade, and needs merchants and other such money bringers)

 

[Superdude]

Any way at all?

 

[follow_by_white_rabbit]

I think that it wouldn't change much only truly federation could save the Rzeczpospolita (Commonwealth) from disaster of partitions and internal unrests. Commonwealth could survive as wide federation not only Poland and Lithuania states but alsow Galicia (Ukraine) Pomeria, Prussia, Silesia, Livonia etc. without superial nation or state. But the moust importan weakness of Commonwealth was the fact that only the Nobels were concider as soceity bouth from Polish and Lithuania (Lithuanian and partly Ukrainian Nobels was strongly poloniside). Creating "new" Commonwealth with "old" problems coluld be pointless.

 

[Chingo360]

How can we get the Lithuanians to be the dominant partners in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, without messing with history too much?

Also, how could this Lithuanian-Polish Commonwealth be a powerful nation in Eastern Europe and the Baltics, enough to be a powerful foe of Sweden and Russia?

Im asking for you guy's help, because I want to make a timeline that results in a Fascist(kind of) Lithuania starting some kind of enormous war.

You cant really do that, since Poland was really the one to activate it, they wouldn't have done this if they can't secure themselves the main spot.

 

[Superdude]

I know Poland was the one to activate it, but this is what Alternate History is about.

I just want to know how to make Lithuania the stronger country, and to unite with Poland, by conquest or by Dynastic bonds, or whatever.

 

[abas]

After death of Vytautas Svitrigaila become the great duke of Lithuania and then arose hostility between him and his brother Jogaila. Svivrigaila lost. But some historians stated, that if he win, then Lithuania become dominant state iinstead of Poland.

 

[Max Sinister]

Many conquerors were absorbed by the people they conquered, but in those cases, the conquered people usually had more culture - Chinese vs Mongols, French vs Normans, Romans vs Germanics. That wouldn't be the case with the Germans and the Balts.