List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage II
- Thread starter FalconHonour
- Start date
Scenario: The sons of Burgundy.
Philip III 'The Good', Duke of Burgundy (b.1396: d.1467) m. Michelle, Princess of France (b.1395: d.1422) (a), Bonne of Artois (b.1396: d.1425) (b), Isabella, Infanta of Portugal (b.1397: d.1471) (c)
Philip III 'The Good', Duke of Burgundy (b.1396: d.1467) m. Michelle, Princess of France (b.1395: d.1422) (a), Bonne of Artois (b.1396: d.1425) (b), Isabella, Infanta of Portugal (b.1397: d.1471) (c)
1c) Anthony I, Duke of Burgundy (b.1430: d.1478) m. Catherine, Princess of Valois (b.1428: d.1446) (a), Anne of York (b.1439: d.1474) (b)
1b) Francis I, Duke of Burgundy (b.1460: d.1480) m. Anne, Princess of France (b.1461: d.1522) (a)
- had no issue
2b) Elisabeth of Burgundy (b.1464: d.1500) m. Charles II, Duke of Guelders (b.1467: d.1538) (a)
1a) Stillborn Son (c.1490)
3b) Charles of Burgundy (b.1465: d.1467)
4b) Anthony II, Duke of Burgundy (b.1470: d.1523) m. Elizabeth, Princess of England (b.1466: d.1500) (a), Francoise of Alençon (b.1490: d.1550) (b)
1a) Anne of Burgundy (b.1485)
2a) Edward, Count of Charolais (b.1488: d.1492)
3a) Margaret of Burgundy (b.1490: d.1491)
4a) Philip IV, Duke of Burgundy (b.1491)
5a) Isabella of Burgundy (b.1495: d.1496)
6a) Guy, Duke of Luxembourg (b.1498)
7a) Joan of Burgundy (b.1500: d.1500)
8b) Anthony, Duke of Alençon (b.1509)
9b) Stillborn Son (c.1510)
10b) Alys of Burgundy (b.1512)
11b) Louise of Burgundy (b.1513: d.1515)
12b) Rene, Bishop of Cambrai (b.1514)
13b) Gaston of Burgundy (b.1515)
14b) Agnes of Burgundy (b.1516)
15b) Catherine of Burgundy (b.1518)
16b) Louis of Burgundy (b.1519: d.1519)
17b) Madeleine of Burgundy (b.1520)
18b) Josse of Burgundy (b.1522)
19b) Charlotte of Burgundy (b.1523: d.1523)
2c) Josse, Duke of Brabant (b.1432: d.1489) m. Isabella of Bourbon (b.1434: d.1470) (a), Jeanne of Lorraine (b.1458: d.1484) (b)
1a) Louis of Brabant (b.1454: d.1464)
2a) David, Duke of Brabant (b.1456: d.1500) m. Louise of Albret (c.1460/1465: d.1494) (a)
1a) Renee of Brabant (b.1484: d.1487)
2a) Louise of Brabant (b.1490: d.1490)
3a) Stillborn Son (c.1457: d.1458)
4a) Marie of Brabant (b.1459: d.1462)
5a) Anthony of Brabant (b.1460: d.1490) m. Madeleine d'Amboise (b.1461: d.1497) (a)
1a) Arthur I, Duke of Brabant (b.1488)
6a) Joan of Brabant (b.1462: d.1520) m. Charles I de Croÿ (b.1455: d.1527) (a)
- had no issue
7a) Stillborn Son (c.1463)
8a) Charles, Bishop of Cambrai (b.1465: d.1520)
- never married, had no issue
9a) Francis, Bishop of Utrecht (b.1466: d.1538)
- never married, had no issue
10a) Michelle of Brabant (b.1468: d.1499) m. John de la Pole, Earl of Lincoln (b.1460 d.1488) (a) -murdered-, Henry Tudor, Earl of Richmond (b.1457: d.1510) (a)
1b) Henry Tudor, Earl of Richmond (b.1490)
2b) Edward Tudor, Earl of Pembroke (b.1493)
3b) Sir Edmund Tudor (b.1497)
11a) Stillborn Son (c.1470)
12b) Charlotte of Brabant (b.1476: d.1499) m. Richard of Shrewsbury, Duke of York and Norfolk (b.1473: d.1518) (a)
1a) Elizabeth of York (b.1498)
2a) Edward of York (b.1499: d.1500)
13b) Stillborn Son (c.1477)
14b) Helene of Brabant (b.1479: d.1540) m. Charles II, Duke of Guelders (b.1467: d.1538) (a)
1a) Margaret of Guelders (b.1505)
2a) Stillborn Son (c.1507)
3a) Charles III, Duke of Guelders (b.1511)
4a) Henri of Guelders (b.1511)
5a) Adolf of Guelders (b.1515: d.1515)
3c) Charles, Duke of Luxembourg (b.1433: d.1477) m. Madeleine of Brittany (c.1430: d.1500) (c)
1a) Stillborn Son (c.1455)
2a) Isabella of Luxembourg (b.1458: d.1520) m. Nicholas I, Duke of Lorraine (b.1448: d.1490) (a)
1a) Stillborn Son (c.1475)
2a) Anne of Lorraine (b.1478: d.1478)
3a) Stillborn Son (c.1480)
4a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1482)
5a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1485)
6a) Yolande of Lorraine (b.1488: d.1488)
7a) Francis, Duke of Lorraine (b.1489)
8a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1490)
3a) Philip of Luxembourg (b.1460: d.1464)
4a) Stillborn Son (c.1461)
5a) Stillborn Son (c.1463)
6a) Marie of Luxembourg (b.1465: d.1476)
7a) Stillborn Son (c.1468)
8a) Margaret of Luxembourg (b.1470: d.1534) m. Frederick, King of Naples (b.1452: d.1504) (a), Ferdinand II, King of Aragon (b.1452: d.1516) (b)
1a) Frederick, Duke of Calabria (b.1484)
2a) Isabella, Princess of Naples (b.1486: d.1500)
3a) John, Prince of Taranto (b.1487)
4a) Louis, Prince of Naples (b.1490: d.1493)
5a) Julia, Princess of Naples (b.1492)
6a) Ferdinand, Prince of Naples (b.1495: d.1500)
7a) Antonia, Princess of Naples (b.1497)
8a) Charles, Prince of Naples (b.1500)
9a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1503)
10b) Ferdinand III, King of Aragon (b.1506)
11b) Stillborn Son (c.1508)
Why? Surely Constance would be better off with a husband whose interests lie in securing his French possessions - and her son gets to inherit here!You simply broke my heart with this.
Jeanne de Laval has issues
Jeanne de Laval (1433-1498)m René d'Anjou Duke of Anjou and Bar, Count of Provence and Piedmont(1409-
1480)with issues
_Mary (1455-1509) m??
Charles IV , Duke of Anjou, Duke of Bar, Count of Provence,and the Count of Le Mayne and Guise (1457-1518) m??
_ Jeanne (1462-1529)m??
I need help with marriages
Jeanne de Laval (1433-1498)m René d'Anjou Duke of Anjou and Bar, Count of Provence and Piedmont(1409-
1480)with issues
_Mary (1455-1509) m??
Charles IV , Duke of Anjou, Duke of Bar, Count of Provence,and the Count of Le Mayne and Guise (1457-1518) m??
_ Jeanne (1462-1529)m??
I need help with marriages
Gender-bent children of Henry VIII [ @isabella @Kellan Sullivan ]
Henry VIII (1491-1547) m. Katherine of Aragon (1485-1528) [1] (a) Anne Boleyn (1501/7-1536) (b) Jane Seymour (1508-1537) (c), mistress Bessie Blount (1500-1540) (d)
1a) Henry IX (1516-1568) m. Charlotte of France (1516-1558) (a) Margaret of Austria (1536-1567) (b)
2d) Elizabeth Fitzroy (1519-1536) m. William Parr (1513-1571)
3b) Edward (1533-1603) m. Amy Robsart (1532-1560) (a) Margaret Seymour (1540-1590) (b) Elizabeth Cecil (1575-1591) (c)
4c) Jane (1537-1553) never married
[1] Died of sweat
Henry VIII (1491-1547) m. Katherine of Aragon (1485-1528) [1] (a) Anne Boleyn (1501/7-1536) (b) Jane Seymour (1508-1537) (c), mistress Bessie Blount (1500-1540) (d)
1a) Henry IX (1516-1568) m. Charlotte of France (1516-1558) (a) Margaret of Austria (1536-1567) (b)
2d) Elizabeth Fitzroy (1519-1536) m. William Parr (1513-1571)
3b) Edward (1533-1603) m. Amy Robsart (1532-1560) (a) Margaret Seymour (1540-1590) (b) Elizabeth Cecil (1575-1591) (c)
4c) Jane (1537-1553) never married
[1] Died of sweat
In a world where Henry is not in a desperate hurry to make a male heir, why would he marry two daughters of random knights at his court?
Ignoring @Saya Aensland 's very valid point:
Henry IX's only way of marrying Margaret of Austria is if he and Charlotte had no surviving issue.
Elizabeth Fitzroy likely marries who Elizabeth Kymbe, Baroness Talboys married OTL.
Robsart and Seymour are very low matches when Mary FitzAlan, Countess of Arundel, is right there
Angouleme was part of Richard’s lands so is far likelier seeing Isabella married to her original intended (and OTL second husband)
I thought Isabella’s second husband was the son of her original betrothed?
Naaaah on several levels - first, if Katherine gives Henry a son in 1516 then there’s no way he would consider having their marriage annulled or choose Anne Boleyn as his second wife (he could ask her to be his mistress but she would refuse). second, henry would never acknowledge a female version of henry fitzroy, so she would simply be elizabeth tailboys and for all intents and purposes have nothing to do with the king. and third, i cannot see henry falling for jane seymour without having her as a contrast to anne boleyn.
Henry VIII of England (1491-1547) married a) Catherine of Aragon (1485-1511) and b) Eleanor of Austria (1498-1558) with issues
A) Elizabeth (1510-1538) m Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (1500-1558)
_Isabella (1527-1599) m Maximilian II, Holy Roman Emperor (1527-1579) with issues
_Philip II of Spain (1529-1600) married a) Maria Manuela of Portugal ***(1528-1545) and b) Margaret of France (1523-1599) with issues
_John, Duke of Burgundy (1532-1601) married Isabella of France *(1531-1612)
_Catalina (1533-1600) m Joao Manuel, Prince of Portugal (1537-1554)**with issues
_Henry (1535-1540)
_Ferdinand, Duke of Milan (1538-1614) married Bona of Savoy*** *(1540-1614)
A) Henry Prince of Wales and the Duke of Cornall and Earl of Chester (1511-1533) married Maria of Portugal (1513-1580)
_Henry IX of England (1530-1583) married Maria of Austria (1531-1581)with issues
_John, Duke of Bedford (1532-1600) m Mary Fitzlan Countess of Arnold (1533-1603) with issues
B) Edward, Duke of York (1516-1558), married Anne Bourchier (1517-1579)
_Henry, Duke of York (1534-1600) m Elizabeth Percy****** (1533-1603) with issues
_Elizabeth (1536-1599) married Thomas Howard, Duke of Norfolk (1536-1600) with issues
_Eleanor (1538-1600) m Thomas Boleyn, 2nd Earl of Wilshere (1538-1601) with issues
B) Catherine (1517-1589) m Francis III, Duke of Brittany (1518-1536)
_Francis II of France (1536-1600) married a) Margaret of Austria (1536-1567) and b) Margaret of Spain (1549-1619) with issues
B) Edmund, Duke of Somerset (1519-1589) married Catherine Willoughby (1519-1595) with issues
_Henry, Duke of Somerset (1536-1600) married Eleanor Howard (1537-1619) with issues
_miscarriage
_Eleanor (1540-1545)
_Catherine (1543-1600) mHenry Gray, Marquess of Droste (1545-1600)
_John (1545-1550)
B) Mary (1520-1598) mWilhelm, Duke of Jülich-Cleve-Burg (1516-1596) with issues
_John Wilhelm, Duke of Jülich-Cleve-Burg (1538-1612) m Catherine of France *(1538-1614) with issues
_Mary Eleanor (1540-1600) m Charles Archduke of Austria and ruler of Inner Austria (Carinthia, Styria, Carniola) (1540- 1590)with issues
_ Elizabeth (1542-1610)m Arthur I, King of Scotland (1541-1616) with issues
_ Henry Charles (1545-1614), Bishop of Münster
_Anna Amalia (1548-1620) m Charles, Duke of Burgundy (1548-1621) with issues
_miscarriage
B) Eleanor (1522-1528)
B) John, Duke of Bedford (1524-1528)
*Daughters of Francis I of France and his second wife, Hedwig of Poland
**they have twin boys
***Died because of miscarriage, no issue
****Daughter of Ludovico of Savoy (1523-?) and Isabella of Poland, Countess of Bari and Rossano
*****Daughter of Anne Boleyn and Henry Percy
A) Elizabeth (1510-1538) m Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (1500-1558)
_Isabella (1527-1599) m Maximilian II, Holy Roman Emperor (1527-1579) with issues
_Philip II of Spain (1529-1600) married a) Maria Manuela of Portugal ***(1528-1545) and b) Margaret of France (1523-1599) with issues
_John, Duke of Burgundy (1532-1601) married Isabella of France *(1531-1612)
_Catalina (1533-1600) m Joao Manuel, Prince of Portugal (1537-1554)**with issues
_Henry (1535-1540)
_Ferdinand, Duke of Milan (1538-1614) married Bona of Savoy*** *(1540-1614)
A) Henry Prince of Wales and the Duke of Cornall and Earl of Chester (1511-1533) married Maria of Portugal (1513-1580)
_Henry IX of England (1530-1583) married Maria of Austria (1531-1581)with issues
_John, Duke of Bedford (1532-1600) m Mary Fitzlan Countess of Arnold (1533-1603) with issues
B) Edward, Duke of York (1516-1558), married Anne Bourchier (1517-1579)
_Henry, Duke of York (1534-1600) m Elizabeth Percy****** (1533-1603) with issues
_Elizabeth (1536-1599) married Thomas Howard, Duke of Norfolk (1536-1600) with issues
_Eleanor (1538-1600) m Thomas Boleyn, 2nd Earl of Wilshere (1538-1601) with issues
B) Catherine (1517-1589) m Francis III, Duke of Brittany (1518-1536)
_Francis II of France (1536-1600) married a) Margaret of Austria (1536-1567) and b) Margaret of Spain (1549-1619) with issues
B) Edmund, Duke of Somerset (1519-1589) married Catherine Willoughby (1519-1595) with issues
_Henry, Duke of Somerset (1536-1600) married Eleanor Howard (1537-1619) with issues
_miscarriage
_Eleanor (1540-1545)
_Catherine (1543-1600) mHenry Gray, Marquess of Droste (1545-1600)
_John (1545-1550)
B) Mary (1520-1598) mWilhelm, Duke of Jülich-Cleve-Burg (1516-1596) with issues
_John Wilhelm, Duke of Jülich-Cleve-Burg (1538-1612) m Catherine of France *(1538-1614) with issues
_Mary Eleanor (1540-1600) m Charles Archduke of Austria and ruler of Inner Austria (Carinthia, Styria, Carniola) (1540- 1590)with issues
_ Elizabeth (1542-1610)m Arthur I, King of Scotland (1541-1616) with issues
_ Henry Charles (1545-1614), Bishop of Münster
_Anna Amalia (1548-1620) m Charles, Duke of Burgundy (1548-1621) with issues
_miscarriage
B) Eleanor (1522-1528)
B) John, Duke of Bedford (1524-1528)
*Daughters of Francis I of France and his second wife, Hedwig of Poland
**they have twin boys
***Died because of miscarriage, no issue
****Daughter of Ludovico of Savoy (1523-?) and Isabella of Poland, Countess of Bari and Rossano
*****Daughter of Anne Boleyn and Henry Percy
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All these girls are way too low-ranked for the Duke of York. Unless you mean to imply Henry delegitimizes Edward, which is a very un-Henry thing to do, and in any case, the chances of Anne Boleyn meeting her OTL fate ITTL are practically non-existent.
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Yes he would
He falls for first Anne then Jane, like OTL
It was stated that Katherine died of the 1528 sweat outbreak.....Anne would therefore NOT be his mistress
Except he is going to have Jane as the contrast for Anne here too....
Even if they had only girls?
Look, I wanted the historical ironic fun of the Robsart match, but I concede that FitzAlan works well
I mean, Edward is the descendant of a whole host of people who pioneered the art of politically unsuitable royal matches
oh I just presumed she'd died of her 1536 miscarriage
House of Hunyadi:
Beatrice of Naples (1457-1512) m. Matthias Corvinus (1443-1492) King of Hungary
1) John I (1477-1524) King of Hungary 1492, m. Anne of Foix (1484-1546)
Vladislaus II (1456-1518) King of Bohemia, m. a) Barbara of Brandenburg (annuled), b) Elizabeth of Palatinate (1483-1522)
Beatrice of Naples (1457-1512) m. Matthias Corvinus (1443-1492) King of Hungary
1) John I (1477-1524) King of Hungary 1492, m. Anne of Foix (1484-1546)
1) Matthias II (1503-1526) King of Hungary 1524
2) Anna (1506-1511)
3) Beatrice (1508)
4) Louis II (1510-1562) King of Hungary 1526, m. Hedwig of Poland (1510-1574) [1]
[1] Daughter of Sigismund the Old and Catherine of Mecklenburg
Meanwhile Vladislaus Jagiellon rules only Bohemia:Vladislaus II (1456-1518) King of Bohemia, m. a) Barbara of Brandenburg (annuled), b) Elizabeth of Palatinate (1483-1522)
1b) Wenceslaus V (1502-1540) King of Bohemia 1518, m. Mary of Austria (1505-1558)
2b) Elizabeth (1504-1523) m. Ferdinand I (1503-1564) Holy Roman Emperor
3b) Vladislaus III (1507-1578) King of Bohemia 1540, m. Kunigunde of Brandenburg-Kulmbach (1524-1568)
No way. The father at that point was already married to his second wife who was Isabella’s cousin and Isabella‘s OTL husband was without doubt son of the first wife
Alternate descendants of Philip II:
Philip II (1527-1598) King of Spain, m. a) Maria Manuela (1527-1545) Princess of Portugal, b) Mary I (1516-1558) Queen of England, c) Elisabeth of Valois (1545-1568), d) Anna (1549-1580) Archduchess of Austria
[2] Son of Philip and Jeanne IV of Navarre
Philip II (1527-1598) King of Spain, m. a) Maria Manuela (1527-1545) Princess of Portugal, b) Mary I (1516-1558) Queen of England, c) Elisabeth of Valois (1545-1568), d) Anna (1549-1580) Archduchess of Austria
1a) Carlos (1545-1568) Prince of Asturias m. Dorothea of Lorraine (1545-1621)
1) Maria I (1565-1585) Queen of Portugal m. Ferdinand VI (1571-1638) King of Spain
2b) Philip II (1555-1612) King of England m. Elisabeth (1554-1592) Archduchess of Austria
1) Charles I (1571-1632) King of England m. Maria (1575-1642) Princess of Tuscany
2) Mary (1572-1645) m. James VI (1566-1625) King of Scotland
3) Philip (1573-1629) m. Jeanne IV (1573-1623) [1] Queen of Navarre
4) Katherine (1575-1640) m. Matthias (1557-1619) Holy Roman Emperor
3c) Isabella I (1566-1633) Queen of France m. Albert VII (1559-1621) Archduke of Austria
1) Marie I (1600-1660) Queen of France m. Henry IV (1600-1655) [2] King of Navarre
2) Isabelle (1602-1666) m. Ladislaus IV (1595-1648) King of Poland, Grand Duke of Lithuania
4c) Catalina (1567-1597) m. Charles Emmanuel (1562-1630) Duke of Savoy
issue as IOTL
5d) Ferdinand VI (1571-1638) King of Spain m. a) Maria I (1565-1585) Queen of Portugal, b) Maria Christina (1574-1621) Archduchess of Austria
1a) Philip III (1585-1640) King of Spain and Portugal m. Margaret (1584-1611) Archduchess of Austria
2b) Isabella (1590-1647) m. Victor Amadeus I (1587-1637) Duke of Savoy
[1] Daughter and heiress of Henry III of Navarre and Margaret of Valois[2] Son of Philip and Jeanne IV of Navarre
No. Absolutely not. France is not going to disregard Salic law THREE GENERATIONS IN A ROW when the Bourbons are right there.
I mean, with the ASB going on in my tree, having a successful Isabella I of France was just me pushing it.
Fair enough though