Lands of Red and Gold

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Frisian not the original language? Very dubious at best........where did you get this from, btw?

Where did you hear that it was? Honest question, because I studied Old English at uni and it was made quite clear that Frisian and Anglo-Saxon were distinct languages, albeit related. I've never heard or read anywhere since that Old Frisian was viewed as the direct ancestor of English.

Obviously there's not much in the way of written records from the period to go on, but every indicator I've seen is that the migration of Germanic peoples to the British Isles included people from a much wider area than from where Frisian speakers came from. And while I'm usually loathe to refer people to the Polish Genocide, even that describes Old Frisian as a related language to Old English, not an ancestor.

And speaking of Holland, how well are they doing here?

Holland, or the broader Netherlands? The fate of the broader Netherlands is complicated - they have Aururian wealth flooding in, ten less years of war than in OTL, but on the other hand have taken an immense demographic hit from the Aururian plagues. They are starting to attract some migration from the rest of Europe above what they experienced in OTL. Perhaps the most notable of that is that a lot of Anabapists from the region of modern Switzerland are coming down the Rhine to the Netherlands, and some of those Anabaptists in turn are taking service and/or settlement options with the Dutch East India and West India Companies.
 
Where did you hear that it was? Honest question, because I studied Old English at uni and it was made quite clear that Frisian and Anglo-Saxon were distinct languages, albeit related. I've never heard or read anywhere since that Old Frisian was viewed as the direct ancestor of English.

Obviously there's not much in the way of written records from the period to go on, but every indicator I've seen is that the migration of Germanic peoples to the British Isles included people from a much wider area than from where Frisian speakers came from. And while I'm usually loathe to refer people to the Polish Genocide, even that describes Old Frisian as a related language to Old English, not an ancestor.

I can't honestly remember, I think it might have been on some documentary or something.....



Holland, or the broader Netherlands? The fate of the broader Netherlands is complicated - they have Aururian wealth flooding in, ten less years of war than in OTL, but on the other hand have taken an immense demographic hit from the Aururian plagues. They are starting to attract some migration from the rest of Europe above what they experienced in OTL. Perhaps the most notable of that is that a lot of Anabapists from the region of modern Switzerland are coming down the Rhine to the Netherlands, and some of those Anabaptists in turn are taking service and/or settlement options with the Dutch East India and West India Companies.

I see. Honestly, an Amish tropical paradise would be very interesting to see indeed. :)
 
Frisian is rather a sister language of Anglo-Saxon, yes.

Celtic influences in English? The only one I could tell would be "whisky".

@CaliBoy1990: I got the numbers for Castille from an old encyclopedia which mentioned this fact. :)
 
Well that's hardly the greatest controversy in linguistics, I mean look at the Altaic Language theory. (Which is the theory that the Turkish, Mongolian, Tungusic (Manchurian), Korean, and Japanese languages are a part of the same linguistic family)

Or that the Athabascan & Yeniseian languages are somehow directly connected(LOL). :p
IMO, though, I do agree with you.

Both Old Frisian and Old English are descended from Anglo-Frisian, and are very similar, but not quite the same. Certainly, there was probably more of a continuum between the two, and they were likely mutually intelligible, but Old English was not descended from Old Frisian.

Well....I guess that does make sense. :):)
 
Lands of Red and Gold #55: The Lord’s Prayer
Lands of Red and Gold #55: The Lord’s Prayer

Writing the next major instalment of Lands of Red and Gold – about the fate of Baffin’s expedition and related events – is taking me longer than I’d planned. In the meantime, here’s another brief glimpse into the future of the LRGverse.

* * *

“Knowing yourself is wisdom;
Knowing others is insight;
Knowing how to act is essential.”
- Congxie saying

* * *

Dawson (formerly Unega) [Montgomery, Alabama]
Alleghania

Sometimes, Myumitsi Makan feels that he has lived an eternity in this town that the unegas [1] call Dawson. Other times, he feels as if only yesterday he came to this town to make a new name and find men who could not remember his old name.

Tonight, he most definitely feels the former. In his head, he knows that it has been only three years since he first came to Dawson. Now, though, he looks upon the mass of Congxie who have come at his urging, and he thinks that it should have been much longer. Dawson has simply grown so fast. This place of mills [factories] and workshops, this place for the reshaping of cotton, iron, and timber, is a lodestone for the dispossessed, the adventuresome, and, amongst unegas, the avaricious.

The flickering whale oil lamps are not particularly bright, but they suffice to show him how many people have crowded into this place. A large Christian church, built most foolishly by optimistic unega plutocrats who believed that the Congxie would abandon the Seven-fold Path and become slaves to a hanged god.

Most days, even their Sundays, this church stands empty of Congxie. Tonight, though, it is filled to the rafters. Literally; the smaller child labourers have been passed up to where they can sit on the cross-beams.

Voices fill the church; the Congxie are not a quiet people at the best of times. Makan makes his way slowly to the pulpit to address the workers. For what will be a sermon, in fact, if not one which the Christian priests would endorse.

“Silence for Mr Jenkins!” several people call out, and by degrees, quiet falls. As quiet as a gathering of Congxie ever gets, that is.

“Tell us, Mr Jenkins!” someone calls out.

Makan smiles. Mister Jenkins. An essential honorific, that. Unegas would call him by his assumed surname alone, if they had their way, and the tale is that many of them used to try with other Congxie, in the first days. Newcomers to Dawson still try, often-times. They soon learn.

If Congxie are going to be called by a surname chosen in English, of all languages, then they will be shown respect. If an unega refers to him by surname alone, Makan hears only the wind. Most Congxie in Dawson act in like manner. It is this accomplishment, more than anything else, which has persuaded him to organise the morrow’s bold endeavour.

“My friends, this is the night for planning, and tomorrow is the day for decisiveness!”

“Say it, mister!” a woman shouts, to general acclaim.

Makan gives the woman a nod – Cordiality, he thinks her name is – and continues speaking. “Together we must stand,” he says, to another round of acclamation.

“Together, we must strike a great blow,” he says. “Our actions are born of new circumstances, in this new town the unegas have built.” On land they had forcibly stolen from the Congxie, but that is something which Makan does not let himself dwell on that.

“Remember: the unegas speak of this land as a new world. In truth, it never was new. Our forefathers dwelt here since time immemorial.” Relative silence falls, now. Is that because they are considering, or just that they are bored? He does not know, but this message still needs to be heard.

“The true new world comes from knowledge, not from exploration. This modern age is a time of machines, of learning how metal and timber can be crafted by the fires of the earth. This is the age of machines... and we labour in the mills for the bosses who own those machines.”

“We slave, you mean!” someone calls out.

“Oft-times, yes,” Makan says. “But hear me, my friends: there is more to this new age than just a few bosses who care naught for the difference between a slave and a Congxie.”

This time, he thinks that the silence is thoughtful. All to the good.

“This is a new world. A world with new ways of working. With new rules. There is no yindewarra [2]. No proper tradition.” He pauses again to let that be considered, then adds, “Even when the bosses are good men, they have no yindewarra to guide them how to act. Not in this new world, where the rules have changed.”

The crowd starts to descend into angry mutters. Makan says, “We must teach them new rules, proper rules. And we must do it together. If we stand alone, each of us will be nothing. Alone, all the power is with the owners. With the bosses. Only by acting together can we balance their power. We must stand in...” he pauses, hen chooses an English word, since it seems to fit better. “We must stand in solidarity.”

“Solidarity!” The crowd repeat the word over and over, until it becomes a chant.

When the noise subsides again, someone asks, “Can we really do this, Mr Jenkins?” The crowd believes it, of course, or they would not be here. All the same, they want reassurance.

Makan smiles broadly, even though he is not sure how many can make it out. Not for the first time, he is glad that he is known by an assumed surname. The surname Makan is not an auspicious one, these days.

“Remember our forefathers. Remember how the Congxie were born. They rejected the new rules which the unegas sought to impose on them, even then. They rose as one. They acted as one. And they triumphed!”

This time, cheers ring out. Once the crowd quietens again, he says, “Spread the word. Let everyone know. The mills will fall silent tomorrow. No Congxie will work at their mills, by their rules. We will not work tomorrow, and we will not work again until they listen to us.”

* * *

[1] “Unega” is literally translated as “white”; the word is of Cherokee origin. In the Congxie language, it has become one of their words for people of European descent. The word is not particularly respectful, although in Makan’s era it is not an explicit insult. (It would later become derogatory.)

[2] Yindewarra is a Congxie word which is roughly translated as “tradition”, but with stronger connotations: it refers to the proper, established way of doing things. In accordance with Plirite morality, people are expected to act with propriety, in accordance with their station and with established conducts of behaviour. Behaving without yindewarra is seen as breaking the Second Path. In an established Plirite society, it is a good way to get condemned, ostracised or, if a ruler, deposed.

* * *

Thoughts?
 
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Very nice update. Only a tiny squibble that the last 'crowd' was spelt 'crown' (not trying to be annoying, but if you publish this I'm sure you'd like a minimum of typos).

Hope things go to plan for them.
 
Ooooo a labour mouvement from the Congxie, this I like very much! Is there a Marx analog in this TL and around when is this latest vignette taking place.
When is this taking place?
I would assume mid to late 19th century but I'm not sure if the industrial revolution was accelerated or delayed in this TL.
 

mojojojo

Gone Fishin'
Is Myumitsi Makangoing to be this TLs version of Marx?
Have Australian hybrid groups like the Congxie arisen in other places in the world?
 
Very nice update. Only a tiny squibble that the last 'crowd' was spelt 'crown' (not trying to be annoying, but if you publish this I'm sure you'd like a minimum of typos).

Thanks for catching it. The rule seems to be that no matter how many times I proof-read something, I always miss at least one typo.

Hope things go to plan for them.

Hopefully. In a more general sense, Myumitsi Makan was much quoted in an earlier post, as follows:

Myumitsi Makan said:
“Society unravels in this modern age. As we learn to do more with machines, we forget more of what it means to be men.”

“A mill [factory] is a means for concentrating the labour of many into the wealth of one.”

“A man who works for wages is scarce more than a slave. A farmer finds food, hearth and home on his own land. An artisan works for himself. Yet a labourer in mill or workshop serves at the bidding of another. If he is fortunate, he will be given enough coin to survive, but not to thrive. If he is unfortunate, he will be cast aside, bereft of food or shelter.”

“Alone, a wage-labourer weeps at a world which is cast out of balance. Never can a man in cloth cap stand equal to a man who wears a ruby. Only when the labourers stand together can harmony be restored.”

- Myumitsi Makan, better known in English as Solidarity Jenkins

Make of that what you will.

Is Myumitsi Makangoing to be this TLs version of Marx?

Not as such. He's a labour organiser par excellence, mostly. What he's doing here is basically creating a social-religious justification for trade unions, and more precisely urban, industrial trade unions. He doesn't have anything resembling a doctrine of dialectical materialism, economic view of history, or of class struggle.

He is an eloquent advocate of some of his views of Plirism, and their social consequences, but this is mostly related to the immediate needs and conditions of workers. For instance, he and his fellows will also form the equivalent of friendly societies for the mutual benefit of their members (if ill etc). But they don't advocate any form of class warfare.

In terms of Plirism, one of its distinguishing features is that it is a religion which has an explicit social contract, and that includes that people from particular classes are expected to act in particular ways. If people in a social class are acting improperly, then action should be taken to correct that, as Makan is trying here through organised labour to 'restore the balance'. But he's not advocating anything like the wholesale removal of the capitalist classes, just that the members of those classes behave appropriately in their treatment of their fellow men.

Have Australian hybrid groups like the Congxie arisen in other places in the world?

The short version is yes, although I haven't gone into detail in the other main group who's arisen in the Americas. (There are hints, and I'll provide more details of that group in due course.)

The biggest influence of Plirism has been through conversion, though; as has been hinted, a significant proportion of the population of Africa is Plirite by the social-technological equivalent of the mid-twentieth century.

Well, there are those fellows the Dutch brought to South Africa. I don't recall any others being mentioned yet...

Yes, the Dutch brought over a group of Aururian farmers to the Cape, in some ways an equivalent of the OTL Cape Malays. The descendants of that group will still exist in some form, although their numbers are harder to guess because they are much more vulnerable to Old World diseases than the Malays were.

Nice update Jared.

Merci.

Religiously motivated strike action. Interesting.

Plirism is funny that way. To superficial appearances, it has much in common with Buddhism or Taoism (harmony, the proper path, etc), but a crucial difference is that Plirism places a major emphasis on social activity and the social contact. Self-insight is not enough; a person also needs to be socially active because the consequences of other people's actions are also important.
 
Sorry to comment on a less-active but very popular thread, and I hope people will forgive me for doing so. I've been catching up on this amazing, captivating piece of work and just don't have sufficient words to convey my awe at the breadth of your creativity, Jared.

My reason for posting is I just saw this image and immediately thought, "that's what a Death Warrior would look like, isn't it?"
 

mojojojo

Gone Fishin'
Sorry to comment on a less-active but very popular thread, and I hope people will forgive me for doing so. I've been catching up on this amazing, captivating piece of work and just don't have sufficient words to convey my awe at the breadth of your creativity, Jared.

My reason for posting is I just saw this image and immediately thought, "that's what a Death Warrior would look like, isn't it?"
That is a good pic, thanks for posting
 
Sorry to comment on a less-active but very popular thread, and I hope people will forgive me for doing so. I've been catching up on this amazing, captivating piece of work and just don't have sufficient words to convey my awe at the breadth of your creativity, Jared.

Merci.

And yes, LoRaG has been rather less active of late, alas. Life remains busy. But it's not dead. More is coming.

My reason for posting is I just saw this image and immediately thought, "that's what a Death Warrior would look like, isn't it?"

Why yes, that does look rather like it. :D
 
Merci.

And yes, LoRaG has been rather less active of late, alas. Life remains busy. But it's not dead. More is coming.

Why yes, that does look rather like it. :D

That is good to hear!

May I hazard a suggestion?

Break things down into smaller updates. When that big Twenty Years War post came out I, despite desperately wanting to read it, almost got overwhelmed and gave up. Now I would have come back, but the same can't be said of everyone. Readers like frequency, and as Dan Brown would tell you, short chapters are effective at creating the illusion of an engrossing read. Given the depth, breadth, and plain quality of this, you'd be better served spacing things like that out.

It's not just readers at stake, either - the folk who contribute to things like this with suggestions, criticism, and even guest writing mostly start out as regular readers.

Sorry if I'm telling my grandmother how to whatever, but there you go.
 
May I hazard a suggestion?

Break things down into smaller updates. When that big Twenty Years War post came out I, despite desperately wanting to read it, almost got overwhelmed and gave up. Now I would have come back, but the same can't be said of everyone. Readers like frequency, and as Dan Brown would tell you, short chapters are effective at creating the illusion of an engrossing read. Given the depth, breadth, and plain quality of this, you'd be better served spacing things like that out.

Fair comment.

That kind of approach does run the opposite of my writing style, though. My usual approach is to let ideas run around in my head for a while, read various sources, write some vague notes and outlines, and then sit down and write a long post in a day or two.

I suppose I could try to do that, but then publish the long post in several shorter instalments over a period of time, rather than all at once. Might be worth a try.
 
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Fair comment.

That kind of approach does run the opposite of my writing style, though. My usuall approach is to let ideas run around in my head for a while, read various sources, write some vague notes and outlines, and then sit down and write a long post in a day or two.

I suppose I could try to do that, but then publish the long post in several shorter instalments over a period of time, rather than all at once. Might be worth a try.

Ayup. I was thinking along the lines of the latter. It's a thought.
 
Fair comment.

That kind of approach does run the opposite of my writing style, though. My usual approach is to let ideas run around in my head for a while, read various sources, write some vague notes and outlines, and then sit down and write a long post in a day or two.

I suppose I could try to do that, but then publish the long post in several shorter instalments over a period of time, rather than all at once. Might be worth a try.

Sounds good to me. BTW, Jared, whatever happened to South America? :cool:
 

mojojojo

Gone Fishin'
Fair comment.

That kind of approach does run the opposite of my writing style, though. My usual approach is to let ideas run around in my head for a while, read various sources, write some vague notes and outlines, and then sit down and write a long post in a day or two.

I suppose I could try to do that, but then publish the long post in several shorter instalments over a period of time, rather than all at once. Might be worth a try.
Whatever way you choose to post is fine by me;)
 
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