Luftwaffe launches massive assault from airfields in Low Countries combined with a Kriegsmarine death ride. WWII ended in a single day? It would make a pretty good movie
Kriegsmarine Disrupt Normandy Landings at Sea
- Thread starter hasdrubal barca
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Luftwaffe launches massive assault from airfields in Low Countries combined with a Kriegsmarine death ride. WWII ended in a single day? It would make a pretty good movie
That's just the warships, there were 1000 transports, some of which like the LST were fairly heavily armed:
1 × 3 in (76 mm) gun
• 6 × 40 mm Bofors guns
• 6 × 20 mm guns
• 2 × .50 cal (12.7 mm) machine guns
• 4 × .30 cal (7.62 mm) machine guns
Saphroneth
Banned
Don't forget that LSTs were unstabilized and had no directors, so not good gun platforms compared to the warships.
Anyone got a tally of ships sunk and damaged by U-boats during Normandy Landings? Here what i got so far, story to go with it.
http://uboat.net/boats/successes/u767.html
http://uboat.net/boats/successes/u621.html
http://uboat.net/boats/successes/u764.html
http://www.uboat.net/boats/successes/u621.html
"At 08.03 hours on 15 June 1944, U-621 fired one Gnat torpedo at the convoy EPL-8 and hit USS LST-133 (Lt Floyd E. Richards, USN) which was about 2000 yards behind station, steaming at full speed of 10 knots with two Rhino tugs in tow about 27 miles northeast of Barfleur, France. The U-boat observed how the vessel broke in two and then managed to retreat without being attacked by the escorts as it was assumed that the vessel had struck an acoustic mine. However, the landing ship remained intact from frame 41 forward so the Germans probably mistook the Rhino tugs that drifted away after the hit as parts of the vessel. The explosion blew away the greater part of the fantail and both 40mm Bofors gun tubes on the stern, demolished the crew quarters and steering engine room and left the vessel without propulsion as the screws and rudder were destroyed. The deck house was damaged by the stern anchor winch that was blown forward and large pieces of twisted deck plate hurled through the air fell on deck and the vehicles stored there. The landing ship carried the men and equipment of the HQ and three batteries of the 113th Field Artillery Battalion, 30th US Infantry Division. As breakfast had just been served many men were washing their mess kits on the fantail when the torpedo struck and the casualties were high: 15 crew members and 28 passengers (22 US Army and 6 USN Seabees) were killed and 17 crew members and 11 passengers (8 US Army and 3 USN Seabees) were wounded."
http://uboat.net/boats/successes/u767.html
http://uboat.net/boats/successes/u621.html
http://uboat.net/boats/successes/u764.html
http://www.uboat.net/boats/successes/u621.html
"At 08.03 hours on 15 June 1944, U-621 fired one Gnat torpedo at the convoy EPL-8 and hit USS LST-133 (Lt Floyd E. Richards, USN) which was about 2000 yards behind station, steaming at full speed of 10 knots with two Rhino tugs in tow about 27 miles northeast of Barfleur, France. The U-boat observed how the vessel broke in two and then managed to retreat without being attacked by the escorts as it was assumed that the vessel had struck an acoustic mine. However, the landing ship remained intact from frame 41 forward so the Germans probably mistook the Rhino tugs that drifted away after the hit as parts of the vessel. The explosion blew away the greater part of the fantail and both 40mm Bofors gun tubes on the stern, demolished the crew quarters and steering engine room and left the vessel without propulsion as the screws and rudder were destroyed. The deck house was damaged by the stern anchor winch that was blown forward and large pieces of twisted deck plate hurled through the air fell on deck and the vehicles stored there. The landing ship carried the men and equipment of the HQ and three batteries of the 113th Field Artillery Battalion, 30th US Infantry Division. As breakfast had just been served many men were washing their mess kits on the fantail when the torpedo struck and the casualties were high: 15 crew members and 28 passengers (22 US Army and 6 USN Seabees) were killed and 17 crew members and 11 passengers (8 US Army and 3 USN Seabees) were wounded."
Given that the Germans (A) didn't know the invasion was coming and (B) could not concentrate forces nearby without tipping off the WAllies and prompting air strikes on their facilities? No.
And the Luftwaffe can't concentrate either: WAllied air supremacy meant that would accelerate their own death.
The KM bags a few destroyers before getting shredded from surface and air assets.
The problem with all of these German naval threads is that there really is no way Germany can even come close to winning on the waves. Whatever they do Britain and America will just outdo them by a factor of 10, and they are stilled hampered by Nazi ideology.
I know right. I almost feel as though Overlord threads are in the same league as Sea Mammal threads, I've participated in about half a dozen myself, comprehensively discussed the factors both major and minor that led to it success. Granted, discussion is fine and maybe some folks are new and haven't tried checking the other threads. but its gotten to the point I almost feel I ought to just type out a rote response or something to save time and effort
Well, there was the Slapton Sands incident. AKA Exercise Tiger.
http://www.npr.org/2012/04/28/151590212/operation-tiger-d-days-disastrous-rehearsal
http://www.combinedops.com/Op_Tiger.htm
http://www.exercisetigerslapton.org/
Despite the high casualties it delayed the invasion by not a second.
Saphroneth
Banned
And that it does always seem to be the usual suspects. Mainly Gudestein, who does insist on trying to square the circle.
Napoleon's fleet would have had a better chance of having a few surviving ships as some USN or RN admiral would have wanted ordered a few captured so they could find out why some idiots are floating around in a war zone in what looks like a bunch of 19th century ships of the line.
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TFSmith121
Banned
Then there's the Home Fleet, which was entirely separate
Then there's the Home Fleet, which was entirely separate from the forces assigned to NEPTUNE for exactly this reason...
Plus Coastal Command outside of the Channel area, the U.S. Atlantic Fleet, the forces assigned to the Atlantic and British home waters and the Canadian and U.S. east coasts, etc.
Plus the Allies had excellent cryptanalysis, aerial reconnaissance, and the European resistance networks in Norway, etc.
It would be a death ride beyond all death rides, and the KM was not the IJN.
Best,
Then there's the Home Fleet, which was entirely separate from the forces assigned to NEPTUNE for exactly this reason...
Plus Coastal Command outside of the Channel area, the U.S. Atlantic Fleet, the forces assigned to the Atlantic and British home waters and the Canadian and U.S. east coasts, etc.
Plus the Allies had excellent cryptanalysis, aerial reconnaissance, and the European resistance networks in Norway, etc.
It would be a death ride beyond all death rides, and the KM was not the IJN.
Best,
Look More Closely Later
Gone Fishin'
Minesweepers
Mind you, I think that that figure might have included a lot of smaller boats (trawler conversions?) that might not qualify as 'proper' warships.
At any rate, they expected lots of mines, and were ready for them.
Churchill claims '...Twenty-nine flotillas of minesweepers were assembled, amounting to about three hundred and fifty craft...' (The Second World War, Volume 5, page 525. (1952 edition))
Mind you, I think that that figure might have included a lot of smaller boats (trawler conversions?) that might not qualify as 'proper' warships.
At any rate, they expected lots of mines, and were ready for them.
thaddeus
Donor
believe you've highlighted the wrong sub, they had a better design Seehund http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seehund
"These boats had a displacement of 17 tons submerged, a crew of 2 and carried two underslung torpedoes of type G7e. The Seehund had the range of 300 km at 7 knots and could attack on the surface in weather up to 4 on the Beufort scale but had to be almost stationary for submerged attacks. About 50 Seehund boats had an additional fuel storage that gave them a range of 300 miles at 7 knots surfaced and 63 miles at 3 knots submerged."
"The Seehund was the most successful midget submarine in the German Navy and between January 1945 to April 1945, 142 sorties had been conducted which resulted in the sinking of 8 ships (17,301 tons) with a loss of 35 in return. It is believed the majority of losses were caused by calamities rather than due to enemy action. Three ships were damaged for 18,384 tons. The magnitude of Allied ships and planes diverted to scour coastal areas for defense against midget submarines showed that the threat was taken very seriously. They operated mainly against Allied supply lines on the European coast and English Channel."
http://www.uboataces.com/midget-seehund.shtml
"Those were 6.5 ton one-man vessels which could carry two underslung torpedoes of which 324 were built by Flenderwerke in Lübeck in 1944. They had the range of 130 miles at 6 knots surfaced and 8.6 miles at 5 knots submerged. This boat had the diving depth of 65 feet but could not launch torpedoes submerged due to depth-keeping problems."
"From January through April 1945 the Molch and Biber midget boats went out on 102 sorties, lost 70 of their own and only sank 7 small ships with a total of 491 tons and damaged 2 for 15,516 tons."
http://www.uboat.net/types/biber.htm
Here the stats in case anyone wants to compare.
marathag
Banned
Where they at least got some good use out of them.
Having a 'cunning plan'™ of delaying the Invasion by going on a Death Ride and letting totally superior forces put your ships beneath the waves before they even get past the screening Destroyers, isn't much of a plan.
Interesting that the Seehund was used to resupply German fortress cities in France still holding out after Normandy: Dunkirk, Lorient, Saint Nazaire, La Rochelle, North Gironde, Boulogne, Brest, Calais, Dieppe, La Pallice, Bordeaux, Le Harve and St Malo.
Could these Fortress along with the U-boats have been used in conjunction to disrupt Allied supply lines?
Could these Fortress along with the U-boats have been used in conjunction to disrupt Allied supply lines?
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