KAL 007 Reversed
- Thread starter wormyguy
- Start date
wormyguy
Banned
Just reverse the scenario, say the pilots on the Vladivostok-Pyongyang route take off their headsets and decide to take a nap, and leave the autopilot on a course over South Korea and Japan straight towards Okinawa. Or make up your own scenario. Basically, I'm more interested in the aftermath than the event itself. Clearly, such events could happen, as demonstrated by IR655.
Okay, say the Aeroflot jet flies straight towards Okinawa for that reason. American pilots mistake it for a nuclear-armed Tu-95 bomber and shoot it down. It spirals into the Tsushima Strait, killing nearly everyone on board. What next?
RamscoopRaider
Donor
Whoever was dumb enough to mistake a propeller plane for a jet is court martialed, the USA apologizes profusely, not much happensOkay, say the Aeroflot jet flies straight towards Okinawa for that reason. American pilots mistake it for a nuclear-armed Tu-95 bomber and shoot it down. It spirals into the Tsushima Strait, killing nearly everyone on board. What next?
Clipper747
Banned
At most a South Korean fighter crew in a F-4C fly towards an Aeroflot jet and attempt to shoot it down. The problem is they'd have to fly to the Sea of Japan to intercept an Aeroflot flight to Tokyo(risking Japanese lives) or they try to intercept an airliner in Soviet airspace (Vladivostok) which is a suicide mission. Either way the US wouldn't be involved.
As for IR 655 it was flying over a scene of naval engagements that day in 1988 so it can't be compared to any 007 like event.
As for IR 655 it was flying over a scene of naval engagements that day in 1988 so it can't be compared to any 007 like event.
USS Vincennes, anybody?
A mistake in the Middle East is the most realistic chance for an American error.
A mistake in the Middle East is the most realistic chance for an American error.
Reversed situation?
There was a great cartoon in the paper on 9-1-1983. It had a TASS announcer stating,
"An innocent Soviet missile was struck ruthlessly in mid-air by a Capitalist Military Aircraft carrying 400 suspected spies. No Soviet lives were lost in the incident, but the missile was a complete loss."
There was a great cartoon in the paper on 9-1-1983. It had a TASS announcer stating,
"An innocent Soviet missile was struck ruthlessly in mid-air by a Capitalist Military Aircraft carrying 400 suspected spies. No Soviet lives were lost in the incident, but the missile was a complete loss."
Cook
Banned
Intrusions in each other’s airspace took place on a regular basis during the cold war and intercepts often took place. They usually to the form of the intruder turning back before the interceptors could get close and the intercepting fighters shadowing the intruder for a while once in international airspace. Warsaw Pact intercepts were often more aggressive resulting in collisions that damaged both aircraft of several occasions. That KAL007 was unusual is clear from the radio traffic and decision to shoot being made at the very highest level in the Kremlin.
Intercepting aircraft is covered by clear guidelines in International flight rules. IR655 is unique in that the Iranian airliner was in proximity to a confrontation between a US warship and Iranian gunships, the US crew faced information overload, were overwhelmed and reacted wrongly. It would be very hard to put together a scenario in which an Aeroflot aircraft would be flying in an area in similar circumstances.
Intercepting aircraft is covered by clear guidelines in International flight rules. IR655 is unique in that the Iranian airliner was in proximity to a confrontation between a US warship and Iranian gunships, the US crew faced information overload, were overwhelmed and reacted wrongly. It would be very hard to put together a scenario in which an Aeroflot aircraft would be flying in an area in similar circumstances.
Might actually be easier to concoct a scenario in which Canada shoots down an aircraft headed for Montreal or New York somewhere around Newfoundland or Labrador. That said, you'd still need something to up the tension level before it would be realistic to expect the aircraft not to be identified before a shoot to kill order...
Perhaps the closest plausible would be an intercept gone wrong ending in a collision between a NATO aircraft and a Russian airliner (bear in mind that the RCAF did in fact ram a Canadian airliner in 1954)... Less room for acusations of malicious intent, but still plenty of diplomatic fallout.
Perhaps the closest plausible would be an intercept gone wrong ending in a collision between a NATO aircraft and a Russian airliner (bear in mind that the RCAF did in fact ram a Canadian airliner in 1954)... Less room for acusations of malicious intent, but still plenty of diplomatic fallout.
Clipper747
Banned
What some are leaving out is the mindset of those in decision vis a vis Soviet/Western counterparts.
The Soviets were paranoid and suspect not to mention being quick to fire first and ask questions later. This attitude was born out of decades worth of authoritarian rule.
In the West it's a complete 180 from the Soviet/Warsaw Pact mentality.
The Soviets were paranoid and suspect not to mention being quick to fire first and ask questions later. This attitude was born out of decades worth of authoritarian rule.
In the West it's a complete 180 from the Soviet/Warsaw Pact mentality.
That's a convincing comparison. I'd almost forgot it. Call it the power of decades of double standard brainwashing upon the empire's subjects.
Shoot first, ask questions later? Normal US army and police policy, excellent for cutting own losses and increasing collateral damage. Ask Nicola Calipari for an informed opinion.
proto 9/11
The CIA uncovers a plot by leftwing terrorists affiliated with the German Red Army Faction to highjack a passenger jet and crash it against a New York tall building. When an aeroflot Il62M is suspect of having been taken order is given for a pair of F106A to intercept. The russian pilots being asleep, the jet fails to respond and is shoot down with a pair of Falcon missiles. The info is soon found out to fabricated and the Soviets are livid. The Cold war gets a bit colder and the (red) Butterfly on Gorbachev shoulder talks him into abandoning his plans to implement perestroyka if he ever gets apointed secretary general...
The CIA uncovers a plot by leftwing terrorists affiliated with the German Red Army Faction to highjack a passenger jet and crash it against a New York tall building. When an aeroflot Il62M is suspect of having been taken order is given for a pair of F106A to intercept. The russian pilots being asleep, the jet fails to respond and is shoot down with a pair of Falcon missiles. The info is soon found out to fabricated and the Soviets are livid. The Cold war gets a bit colder and the (red) Butterfly on Gorbachev shoulder talks him into abandoning his plans to implement perestroyka if he ever gets apointed secretary general...