If Japan Invaded Canada..

[Street_Disciple]

I know it sounds very far fetched but in the summer of 1940 FDR in a speech stated an attack on Canada or any other nation in the New World by an outside power would be considered an attack on the US. While aimed at Germany and designed to protect Danish Greenland, Dutch and French Carribean Islands from German occupation the speech was in keeping with the Monroe Doctrine's ideas. On August 16 1940, the USA and Canada signed a memorandum that set up the Permanent Joint Board of Defence to "consider in the broad sense the defense of the northern half of the western hemisphere".

So if the Japanese Empire invaded Canada before Pearl Harbor would the USA retaliate and defend Canada? Or would they wait until the Japanese built up a formidable force?

 

[DuQuense]

Given FDR's attitude towards the events of early WW2 whe would have been at war. Except the US may have not been needed.
Unlike today when Canada only has a 50,000 military, 1940's Canada had Millions of Soldiers.

 

[Ian the Admin]

Yeah it does sound pretty far fetched. Why the heck would the Japanese commit military suicide by invading the North American mainland? You might as well throw the whole invasion force away for all the good it would do.

 

[David S Poepoe]

We did discuss something like this before, tho I think it was in combination with WI the Japanese had Alaska. Basically, the Japanese would be screwed - at least their forces in Canada, since it would be extremely hard to reinforce or resupply them. I think it would be easier and far more productive to mastermind a surprise attack on Pearl Harbor.

 

[Valamyr]

Given FDR's attitude towards the events of early WW2 whe would have been at war. Except the US may have not been needed.
Unlike today when Canada only has a 50,000 military, 1940's Canada had Millions of Soldiers.

Millions? Sounds a bit far-fetched, we had little more than 11,000,000 people living in Canada back then IIRC. Millions would require at least 2,000,000 soldiers, which would give us a soldier-to-pop ratio larger than Germany in 1945, when they were drafting children and old men too. In other words, bloody unlikely.

I seem to recall the canadian armed forces were close to a million counting support personel at the time, though, which is indeed alot more than 50,000. But the main difference is, we were at war back then, and of course in the advent of a true war, Canada nowadays could raise a million soldiers or two without too much problems. There's little point in keeping a million-man peacetime army though, lest you just want to bully other nations around...

As for the original topic. Bloody unlikely. If the japs wanted to invade the mainland, theyd have landed in the USA. I doubt the US generals' prediction that such an invasion "would not face any real resistance before reaching Boston" would proove true... but having a shot at that would be better than wasting time in Canadian frozen wastelands.

 

[DuQuense]

OK me bad, I got to do my research first. [Open Mouth-Insert Foot] but I stand by my poorly researched point.

 

[God_of_Belac]

If Japan held Hawaii and the Aleutians, it'd make sense to go coast-hopping down from Alaska rather than try an amphibious assault on California from Hawaii. Of course, then we'd already be at war. I don't think there's any way Japan would attack Canada without already having attacked U.S. soil somewhere.

 

[Redbeard]

I doubt the US generals' prediction that such an invasion "would not face any real resistance before reaching Boston" would proove true... but having a shot at that would be better than wasting time in Canadian frozen wastelands.

Hmm...it does sound intersting - I smell business. Imagine busload after busload of Nikon equipped Japanese crossing the continent spending a good amount of $ on the way. And when they reach Boston you of course charge an enormous sum for shipping them back to their island, but they'll pay in order to get back ASAP and show the pictures and the (crappy) souvenirs. That gives time to prepare next years campaign, and GM, Boeing etc. will have to change production into little things with "Greetings from Niagra" etc. written on them.

Regards

Steffen Redbeard

 

[Mike Collins]

Is there anywhere in the Canadian West Coast that a WW2 style amphibious invasion could go through? I could be wrong but I dont think so! Coming through Alaska is impractical due to the mountainous terrain (good for defense).

By the way, did Canada declare war on Japan and/or participate in Pacific Theater combat?

 

[sikitu]

hmm hmmm hmmm...
The Japanese apparently were unable to launch a land offensive against the Soviet Union because they feared the Soviet army and because they had already received a bloody nose from them. And that is a war theater much closer to their homeland, and even with holdings on the mainland (Manchukuo)...so I seriously doubt that any kind of Japanese invasion into Canada or the USA might have worked. You would at least need some genius that gives them a new supertank, or nukes.

The maximum I could think off would be coastal raids on cities such as Anchorage or Vancouver, and even this might be difficult once the air force is alert.

 

[Dave Howery]

hmm... I can remember playing a game of Axis and Allies as Japan, and invading Canada (I didn't hold it for long, but the fact that I did it at all shows how poorly the US player was doing). OK, it's not remotely possible, but it was fun...

 

[Michael]

Maybe the us would go about annexing canada under the pretense of liberaion...
Axis and allies was so fun

 

[Mike Collins]

hmm... I can remember playing a game of Axis and Allies as Japan, and invading Canada (I didn't hold it for long, but the fact that I did it at all shows how poorly the US player was doing). OK, it's not remotely possible, but it was fun...

The Japanese invaders must have been armed with +5 Holy Avengers !

 

[Doctor What]

By the way, did Canada declare war on Japan and/or participate in Pacific Theater combat?

You're kidding? You don't know? Britain, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, South Africa, Holland, and the United States declared war against Japan on pretty much the same day.
Canada also participated in some extensive naval activities since pretty much the minute the Brits got involved in the pacific and we participated in the invasion of the Aleutian Island chain in 1943 as well.

 

[Mike Collins]

You're kidding? You don't know? Britain, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, South Africa, Holland, and the United States declared war against Japan on pretty much the same day.
Canada also participated in some extensive naval activities since pretty much the minute the Brits got involved in the pacific and we participated in the invasion of the Aleutian Island chain in 1943 as well.

Actually Im not. Heres the Reader's Digest version of what Americans learn about the Pacific Theater:

1. Japan attacks China
2. JAPAN ATTACKS PEARL HARBOR!!!!! (and Australia and some British and Dutch territories).
3. I shall return
4. He returns
5. Iwo Jima
6. Hiroshima.......KABLAAAMOOOO!!!
7. Nagasaki........KAAABLOOOEY!!!
8. Surrender on USS Missouri

We dont discuss the participation of others much. I figured if Mexico could get jazzed up to sent a wing of P51s, Canada must have done something. BTW, did the Aleutians participation go beyond the Special Service Force?

 

[Doctor What]

Actually Im not. Heres the Reader's Digest version of what Americans learn about the Pacific Theater:

1. Japan attacks China
2. JAPAN ATTACKS PEARL HARBOR!!!!! (and Australia and some British and Dutch territories).
3. I shall return
4. He returns
5. Iwo Jima
6. Hiroshima.......KABLAAAMOOOO!!!
7. Nagasaki........KAAABLOOOEY!!!
8. Surrender on USS Missouri

LOL! Yeah--we know from watching all the hollywood war pics that U.S. knowledge of other countries' wartime participation is...imperfect. But yours was the funniest summation I've seen.

We dont discuss the participation of others much. I figured if Mexico could get jazzed up to sent a wing of P51s, Canada must have done something. BTW, did the Aleutians participation go beyond the Special Service Force?

Canada had nearly a million soldiers on the ground (not bad for a country of 11 million at the time, eh?). Most were in europe but a big chunk were in the pacific--some were in Hong Kong in 1941 when it was captured by the japanese--and the aleutian invasion was in conjunction with the americans--all together (feeble memory here, sorry) 35000 or so (U.S. and canucks) participated. Don't know the exact breakdown but I doubt all were special service.

 

[Dave Howery]

Mike> uh, no. Actually, I managed to get really lucky in the first two turns of the game; wiped out all US naval strength in the Pacific, captured Midway and Hawaii by amphibious assault(!), and pretty much drove the allies out of the Pacific completely. Later on in the game, I managed to capture Alaska, Mexico, Peru, all of China, 3 provinces of Siberia, Brazil, and (briefly) western Canada. I was riding pretty high for a while, but the Brit player was no fool and packed Australia full of troops and (in a really foolish move), I wasted a lot of my built up strength trying to take it (darn Aussies). I ended the game losing all my conquests in the Americas but held the Pacific in an iron grip, and the AMerican player spent so much of his strength fighting me that Germany squashed Russia and Britain and won the game easily. That was the first time I had played the game, and it was loads of fun....

 

[Melvin Loh]

Guys, re Canadian participation in the Pacific War, I recall reading about a contingent of some 200 Canuck army signallers who were sent to the Top End of Australia during 1943, IIRC, to monitor Jap signals- according to Alan Powell's THE SHADOW'S EDGE, which details extensively WWII in the Top End/NT. And don't forget the 2 Canadian inf bns, of the Winnipeg Grenadiers and Royal Regt of Canada (the latter being Quebecoises), who were sent to Hong Kong to bolster the British-Indian garrison in late 1941, and were either killed or captured when HK fell to the Japs on Christmas Day 1941.

What about the quote off PEARL HARBOUR, just after the attack, when 1 adm or gen tells FDR that the Japs could've reached Chicago before being stopped if they launched an invasion of CONUS ?

 

[Mike Collins]

Canada had nearly a million soldiers on the ground (not bad for a country of 11 million at the time, eh?). Most were in europe but a big chunk were in the pacific--some were in Hong Kong in 1941 when it was captured by the japanese--and the aleutian invasion was in conjunction with the americans--all together (feeble memory here, sorry) 35000 or so (U.S. and canucks) participated. Don't know the exact breakdown but I doubt all were special service.

Yeah, I remember there being Canadians in Hong Kong. Im gonna look into the Canadian participation in the Aleutians. Im really intrigued.

 

[Mike Collins]

Did a little looking and found out a Canadian brigade took part in the offensive to retake Kiska Island. Kinda cool what you learn hanging out around here........