Otis R. Needleman
Banned
General LeMay was not a war criminal. Period. He carried out the missions given him.
How Silent Fall the Cherry Blossoms
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General LeMay was not a war criminal. Period. He carried out the missions given him.
A gas bombing of Japan might have a serious deterrant effect on Germany's more rational leaders.
Otis R. Needleman
Banned
General Lemay was not a psychopath. Period. Psychopaths don't rise to the rank of full general and become entrusted with command of nuclear strike forces.
Garrison
Donor
Most of those who were more rational have been suspended by piano wire by this point. The US attack is just as likely to persuade them that they are on the target list anyway so there's no point holding back anyway.
He was doing exactly what a democratically elected govenrment told him to do - destroy the enemy.
The days that civilians were off limits vanished as soon as industrialisation took over when it came to munitions production and no conventions, treaties or after battle hand wringing changes that.
He may have been 'not all there' but he wasn't a war criminal.
Artatochor
Banned
Apparently, he wanted to nuke North Vietnam. That is not mere retaliation, that is psychopathic bloodlust. Here, he'll get more leeway to behave like he wants to, because the enemy used forbidden weapons first, which is a dangerous line to cross.
Otis R. Needleman
Banned
It was the general's job to recommend the use of any weapon in war to his military and civilian superiors. The general was overruled. Obviously General Lemay didn't launch any nuclear strikes. Hardly "psychopathic bloodlust".
Otis
I'll make no comment on [1] because it would be a matter of definition. However [2] definitely doesn't mean [1] is accurate. That was probably the key decision of the Nuremberg Trials.
However I think the thread is getting rather side-tracked here.
Steve
Just a note - the anthrax attacks will cause relatively limited damage. Culling of the infected herds, burning/burying carcasses and perhaps the fields where the spores landed, and declaring them off limits for grazing for some time will do it. Unlike plague, anthrax does not spread directly from one infected animal/person to the next, or via an intermediary like rat/flea. Of course the evidence of the balloons will make the US even more pissed off, and you'll see the USA institute aerial patrols along the Pacific Northwest and Mountain States to spot and shoot down balloons - if they are shot down before cargoes released, the area of contamination can be contained.
FWIW the decrease in available meat for the USA due to this will be relatively limited - this serves no purpose. At least the L.A. attack had a theory of causing panic/fear, this attack won't hurt very many people (a few may die) and won't affect the food supply in a serious way and the Japanese should have known this. The L.A. attack shows a complete misunderstanding about the USA even after 3 years of war, this is so out of la-la land.
When the Germans hear of this, folks like Runstedt are going to realize that the gloves are now off and that the allied response to use of gas by the Germans will be horrific beyond belief. Adolf of course will ignore this, but all but the most dedicated SS and Nazi types will realize that unless something is done right now Germany will cease to exist as a nation at all, and the civilian death toll will be unreal.
FWIW the decrease in available meat for the USA due to this will be relatively limited - this serves no purpose. At least the L.A. attack had a theory of causing panic/fear, this attack won't hurt very many people (a few may die) and won't affect the food supply in a serious way and the Japanese should have known this. The L.A. attack shows a complete misunderstanding about the USA even after 3 years of war, this is so out of la-la land.
When the Germans hear of this, folks like Runstedt are going to realize that the gloves are now off and that the allied response to use of gas by the Germans will be horrific beyond belief. Adolf of course will ignore this, but all but the most dedicated SS and Nazi types will realize that unless something is done right now Germany will cease to exist as a nation at all, and the civilian death toll will be unreal.
True, but when people find out that Japan used yet another bio agent against the US, the rage levels will skyrocket even further.
Yeah, cause that argument worked real well for Nazis IOTL.
Otis R. Needleman
Banned
The Nazis carried out orders to commit genocide. Are you saying General LeMay was ordered by the United States Government to commit genocide? Your proof, please.
While I have misgivings against Curtis LeMay, we mustn't forget that carpet bombing of cities in WWII weren't done just because they're [expletive deleted] [ethnic slur] - okay, there might be some of that, but anyway - it was pretty much the only way to ensure a successful strike on any given enemy target (munition plants, tank factory etc.), which often happened to be located in or around major population centers. Also, AIUI the idea of "collateral damage" didn't really begin to emerge until after WWII, so the orders given to LeMay ("destroy enemy war-making capabilities with all weapons at your disposal") did not make "preventing civilian casualties" a very high priority.
All of that was OTL. ITTL his enemy unleashed bioweapons against his country, and what he's doing now is retaliation of such a strike with something on the same caliber, so of course he'll have less moral compunction than Runstedt.
I sure hope this doesn't happen...
Marc A
Of course not, that would require rational thinking.
And unfortunately for LeMay, the Japanese had no weapon capable of taking down a B29. Of course, a crash on take off would be somewhat different, especially with this load.
As I understand it LeMay really, really despised war - and was of the opinion that the only way to prevent future wars was to make that option so terrible that nobody would take it.
In that context, wanting to use nuclear weapons on North Vietnam isn't bloodlust, but a desire to make future wars unthinkable by showing the costs of starting one.
However, this set of beliefs didn't fit the narrative the government wanted (it has ground forces as nothing but a nuclear tripwire, for instance, and really pushes missile defence), so the politicians have set out to destroy LeMay's reputation. Pretty much the same as happened to Douglas Haig.
So two people are asked about the best way to prosecute the war in Vietnam. One says to nuke the north and force them to surrender whilst the other says to send thousands of American soldiers to die in the jungle. And the one who wants to use nukes is the psychopath..... right.
Bombing the north did bring them to the peace table so unless you also regard the linebacker raids as psychopathic you are using that term for anyone that contemplates using nuclear weapons. Thus you must of necessity apply the term to all senior military and political leaders since 1945.
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