How Silent Fall the Cherry Blossoms

[stevep]

Geon

For all the panic and problems caused the initial retaliation from the US will I suspect cause far more deaths and destruction that the Japanese gas attacks. The only thing I can think of which might affect things is how does fire and radiant heat affect mustard gas? Then when the US finds out about the anthrax attacks!

With "Dr" Phelps part of me would have preferred him being caught by some of his customers, which would have saved the US government some money.

I fear the US attack on Osaka and news of it spreading around the world will be too late to prevent someone in Germany stopping Hitler doing something very stupid and bad for a lot of Germans.

Steve

 

[wargamer6]

Lets hope.

Perhaps my caution about presuming the worst about the intentions of the US leadership in this TL was misplaced. I am quite disappointed in my nation's (alternate historical) leadership. Interesting that LeMay seems to have far fewer second thoughts about his murderous orders than Von Rundstedt. Really?

What would you expect them to do? Japan just dumped plague fleas on Los Angeles and now anthrax in the Plains.

 

[Scientist Shan]

Lets hope.

Perhaps my caution about presuming the worst about the intentions of the US leadership in this TL was misplaced. I am quite disappointed in my nation's (alternate historical) leadership. Interesting that LeMay seems to have far fewer second thoughts about his murderous orders than Von Rundstedt. Really?

To LeMay its justifiable punishment.

To Rundstedt its sowing the seeds of disaster.

 

[Geon]

Lets hope.

Perhaps my caution about presuming the worst about the intentions of the US leadership in this TL was misplaced. I am quite disappointed in my nation's (alternate historical) leadership. Interesting that LeMay seems to have far fewer second thoughts about his murderous orders than Von Rundstedt. Really?

First of all, the Operation was not code-named "Carthage," for nothing. As many on this thread have noted the Americans are very ticked off at the Japanese for what they have done.

Especially regarding LeMay, let me just say this. LeMay was behind the fire bomb raids that destroyed Tokyo in March of 1945. He once said, "I'll tell you how you win wars, you win wars by killing the enemy!" Is it really so unusual that he would sanction something like this?

The Americans are retaliating for what the Japanese have done in this alternate time line. Gas was a very real possibility and was planned for use in Operation Downfall in any case.

Japan has taken the gloves off here, just as they did in China, unfortunately. They will have to deal with the consequences of doing so.

 

[Unknown]

Keep in mind, LeMay, when he was Wallace's VP candidate, suggested, among other things, that we bomb North Vietnam back into the Stone Age and use nuclear weapons.

He also wanted to bomb Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis (read Resurrection Day by Brendan DuBois; the character of Ramsey Curtis is based on him, loosely).

 

[MikeTurcotte]

To LeMay its justifiable punishment.

To Rundstedt its sowing the seeds of disaster.

LeMay's country (the USA) is going to win - and he know it. Rundstedt's is going to lose - and he knows it too.

Mike Turcotte

 

[Michel Van]

Keep in mind, LeMay, when he was Wallace's VP candidate, suggested, among other things, that we bomb North Vietnam back into the Stone Age and use nuclear weapons.

He also wanted to bomb Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis (read Resurrection Day by Brendan DuBois; the character of Ramsey Curtis is based on him, loosely).

also the character General „Buck“ Turgidson from "Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb"

OMG i hope if Stanley Kubrick and Ralph Bakshi are alive and kicking in New York in this TL ! ! !

and here the Original

 

[LeX]

Another thing is, perhaps the personal participation of LeMay would not be just a random thing. Maybe he gets shot down?

I only skimmed his wiki article a bit but I thought that he had a habit of flying in the head plane on all his missions.

 

[ScrewySqrl]

LeMay was a horrid little psychopath who thought dropping nukes was a great idea.

 

[mkemp]

Especially regarding LeMay, let me just say this. LeMay was behind the fire bomb raids that destroyed Tokyo in March of 1945. He once said, "I'll tell you how you win wars, you win wars by killing the enemy!" Is it really so unusual that he would sanction something like this?

LeMay was a bomber general. Since the jet stream over Japan made high-altitude "precision" bombing impossible he figured that burning down entire cities to get the production facilities accomplished the same result. At that point in the war civilians were just collateral damage on the US side (the Brits wanted to bomb the cities flat just on general principles)
[rant about WWII strategic bombing deleted]

 

[The Oncoming Storm]

Then when the US finds out about the anthrax attacks!

That's a good if frightening point.

Does anyone know how quickly the U.S. could get an A Bomb ready at his time, presumably a Little Boy type, if they pulled out all the stops?

 

[neopeius]

Especially regarding LeMay, let me just say this. LeMay was behind the fire bomb raids that destroyed Tokyo in March of 1945.

Indeed. This really isn't more devastating than that. And who knows--it may bring Japan to the table before the Bomb needs to be used resulting in a net savings of lives.

BTW, this hits home. I love Osaka. I was there just a few months ago.

 

[neopeius]

That's a good if frightening point.

Does anyone know how quickly the U.S. could get an A Bomb ready at his time, presumably a Little Boy type, if they pulled out all the stops?

ITTL, Oppenheimer has already said, "Don't rush me--it'll be this Summer."

 

[stevep]

Indeed. This really isn't more devastating than that. And who knows--it may bring Japan to the table before the Bomb needs to be used resulting in a net savings of lives.

BTW, this hits home. I love Osaka. I was there just a few months ago.

ITTL, Oppenheimer has already said, "Don't rush me--it'll be this Summer."

neopeius

I agree. Given the circumstances I suspect that Japan, also Germany if they do do something extremely stupid, won't last long enough for nuclear weapons to be used. Whether that will reduce or increase the total number of deaths I'm unsure on.

Steve

 

[Cymraeg]

Indeed. This really isn't more devastating than that. And who knows--it may bring Japan to the table before the Bomb needs to be used resulting in a net savings of lives.

BTW, this hits home. I love Osaka. I was there just a few months ago.

I suspect that in this TL Osaka will have a lot of memorials. Or will perhaps be only a memory.

 

[PMN1]

Geon


With "Dr" Phelps part of me would have preferred him being caught by some of his customers, which would have saved the US government some money.

There is still time and a paperwork error..........

 

[PMN1]

Lets hope.

Interesting that LeMay seems to have far fewer second thoughts about his murderous orders than Von Rundstedt. Really?

Given what Japan has just dropped on the US, would anyone consider it murderous orders?

 

[PMN1]

That's a good if frightening point.

Does anyone know how quickly the U.S. could get an A Bomb ready at his time, presumably a Little Boy type, if they pulled out all the stops?

From what i've read, it was going about as fast as could be done.

 

[Artatochor]

Given what Japan has just dropped on the US, would anyone consider it murderous orders?

ITTL, it will get more justification, but LeMay was a true war criminal IOTL. So, things will not change in his mind- he's fully approving of the operation.

 

[PaulJones202718]

I don't think that they really need to rush things along A-bomb-wise. What's being dropped right now will be just as likely to make whoever survives to be hanged by the States to say that he never expected the Americans to resist as forcefully as they did. Funny thing about the IJA and the Nazis...they never understood that people wouldn't quit no matter how cruel they themselves were. The Nuremberg and Tokyo war crimes trials were all about how they never expected the level of resistance they faced.