Wouldn't Stalin's removal be more likely than regime collapse? A cabal of military and NKVD types might decide that the boss had to go so the war effort could be more competently directed, although the time for that was probably the summer of '41.
How close was the Soviet regime to collapsing in October 1941
- Thread starter Catspoke
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Stalin was regarded by his political and military subordinates as the most effective person to be in charge, even after major mistakes. Removing him from power would be a very unlikely move.
So what would happen if he was killed? What if he and Molotov were killed, shortly after Stalingrad falls in September?
There is the horrifying possibility that a relative unknown that was killed in an OTL purge is found to be an effective leader. And then turns out to be WORSE in regards to ruthlessly crushing dissent.
Them being killed is unlikely. A coup is guaranteed to fail; his control of the military and state security apparatus is total. He was extremely paranoid about security, so assassination is also unlikely.
Stalin let his generals run the war and wanted to take credit for it afterwards, Hitler tried to run it himself and let his generals take the blame when he failed. Thus the major differences in outcomes. Had Hitler not interfered so much it might have bought Germany notably more time.
Moscow could be taken under the wrong circumstances in 1941 but the USSR will fight on even if it means dragging the war into 1946 or 1947. Stalin will not go on a killing spree, ultimately he is a pragmatist who wants to win the war and will not kill his top people when he needs them the most.
Moscow could be taken under the wrong circumstances in 1941 but the USSR will fight on even if it means dragging the war into 1946 or 1947. Stalin will not go on a killing spree, ultimately he is a pragmatist who wants to win the war and will not kill his top people when he needs them the most.
Kongzilla
Banned
Taking moscow could be a huge punch in the balls to both sides. Mainly because I can see a lot of documents and key infrastructure being destroyed hampering the Red army because their government is so centralized but the Germans are likely going to beat themselves to death doing it. Stalingrad 2.0
Wolfpaw
Banned
Soviet morale may well have collapsed if the Germans had captured Stalin and made a great show of throwing him in a cage and hanging him
Stalin fleeing Moscow would probably lead to a loss of the city, but the Soviet regime would survive. Stalin would probably be ousted in a silent coup and quietly executed, with the news going public when the war is going better, say two or three years. The Soviet Union emerges victorious under Comrade Molotov.
Stalin fleeing Moscow would probably lead to a loss of the city, but the Soviet regime would survive. Stalin would probably be ousted in a silent coup and quietly executed, with the news going public when the war is going better, say two or three years. The Soviet Union emerges victorious under Comrade Molotov.
Wolfpaw
Banned
The Soviets had been shipping everything that wasn't nailed down to Kuybyshyev for weeks.
Wolfpaw
Banned
Nonsense. This isn't Hitler's Germany; the Soviet system was much more stable and structured than the fascist one, especially post-1939.
In September 1941? Axis forces were a thousand kilometers west of Stalingrad then. Kiev only fell on 19 September. Axis forces took Kharkov, over 600 km west of Stalingrad. in November.
If Stalingrad fell to Germany in September 1941 the war in the East it would have been a very different war.
I wonder if even Hitler believed he could get that far that fast.