Hitler dies at Nuremberg Rally
- Thread starter MattII
- Start date
Good question. Are you thinking no WWII, or just that someone else might step in and take the reins while still leading in that general direction?
Goring probably has the best claim to leadership at this point, assuming he can get a hold of it; everyone else we think of as a "top dog" in the regime is still years away from reaching the zenith of their power. He's as horrible as the rest but will probably be less interested in war than Adolf was. I can see him trying to expand Germany's borders but if he senses there'll be real resistance he'd probably be more cautious.
Or he goes even madder with power than he did in OTL and we're off to the races.
Or he goes even madder with power than he did in OTL and we're off to the races.
Garrison
Donor
There may still be a European war but without Hitler I can't see it being on the scale of WWII as I can't see another leader being so determined to have a war at almost any cost. I can certainly see some sort of conflict with Poland but with some better diplomacy and not pushing for the Sudetenland I can see Poland being relatively isolated.
Göring is already Hitler's heir. Hitler named him as such in a secret decree in December 1934, though not all members of the Reich cabinet were informed. The army will absolutely not stage a coup since they're happy with the Nazis (the majority of the people we associate with the resistance were still very much on the side of the regime).
This may, however, butterfly Himmler's takeover of the police and its fusion with the SS. In 1935 Himmler had control over the Gestapo and the other political police agencies in the various German states. He doesn't, however, control the criminal police or the uniformed police (urban police, county police etc.), which hadn't been unified under the Reich yet at this point. In fact, he's in a power struggle with Frick and his management of the concentration camps has come under criticism.
People like Frick and Justice Minister Gürtner argued they weren't needed anymore and political detainees should be sentenced by the courts. Mind you, they didn't do this for humanitarian reasons. They were fascists, too, but wanted a strong state with a certain degree of lawfulness (but not rule of law), instead of extrajudicial detention centres controlled by an organisation unaccountable to the state authorities. Gürtner argued that camps were unnecessary because the judiciary had embraced Nazism and was already passing harsh sentences for political opponents. Plus all organised opposition had been crushed. Göring was sympathetic to this position, but then lost interest since he was focusing on becoming economic dictator and Hitler supported Himmler.
The regular police may be commanded by someone like Daluege or Nebe, who did opportunistically move into Himmler's camp but actually started out as Göring men. Or Diels gets dusted off. Himmler and his clique may hold on to the secret police, or Göring may reclaim it and put it under his direct control again, with a crony doing the actual work.
This may, however, butterfly Himmler's takeover of the police and its fusion with the SS. In 1935 Himmler had control over the Gestapo and the other political police agencies in the various German states. He doesn't, however, control the criminal police or the uniformed police (urban police, county police etc.), which hadn't been unified under the Reich yet at this point. In fact, he's in a power struggle with Frick and his management of the concentration camps has come under criticism.
People like Frick and Justice Minister Gürtner argued they weren't needed anymore and political detainees should be sentenced by the courts. Mind you, they didn't do this for humanitarian reasons. They were fascists, too, but wanted a strong state with a certain degree of lawfulness (but not rule of law), instead of extrajudicial detention centres controlled by an organisation unaccountable to the state authorities. Gürtner argued that camps were unnecessary because the judiciary had embraced Nazism and was already passing harsh sentences for political opponents. Plus all organised opposition had been crushed. Göring was sympathetic to this position, but then lost interest since he was focusing on becoming economic dictator and Hitler supported Himmler.
The regular police may be commanded by someone like Daluege or Nebe, who did opportunistically move into Himmler's camp but actually started out as Göring men. Or Diels gets dusted off. Himmler and his clique may hold on to the secret police, or Göring may reclaim it and put it under his direct control again, with a crony doing the actual work.
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