So what are the repercussions if Henry IV of England had sons and/or daughters with his second wife Joan of Navarre, dowager Duchess of Brittany?
Henry IV has children with Joan of Navarre
- Thread starter The Professor
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Marc
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She would be in her 40's. Extremely unlikely to get pregnant, and much more likely to die if she did.
As my wife says every now and then, "For women, regardless of station, the past sucks."
Joan married Henry in 1403, when she was about 35 years old. Probably at least a few years where she could conceive. But you're right in that she probably wouldn't survive. Not only was she getting older, she'd already had nine kids with her first husband.
Marc
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Thanks for the correction, that era isn't one that I focus on specific individuals for the most part. But as we both note, the process of childbearing would be fraught - and if one can be sympathetic to a long gone historical figure, a condition we really shouldn't wish on her.
Funny how we rarely think of the women in history, their lives, their losses.
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It would largely depend on the sex of Joan's hypothetical issue with Henry. If it's only female, then we may see some more cadet lines of the House of Lancaster come the War of the Roses if all marriages are domestic. We'd certainly see the Tudors be less prominent if Henry IV still has any legitimate English descendants at all floating around by the late 15th century. If Joan's issue is male, then we will definitely see the establishment of cadet lines - assuming that marriages take place and are mostly domestic, because the English aren't going to take well to a foreigner coming to rule them, and produce issue. Depending on the relationship between Joan's issue with Henry and her children from her first marriage in Brittany, there could be earlier, more clear Breton support for the Lancastrian cause in the WoR.
We could also see John V/VI of Brittany being more committed to the English cause during the Hundred Years' War. Joan probably wouldn't be imprisoned by Henry V.
More like there won’t be any war of Roses,or one that purely centered on the regency of Henry VI alone, assuming the otl one is still king.
Yes...if Henry VI has an uncle to keep things calm with Margaret of Anjou (assuming that she still marries Henry VI) and Richard of Shrewsbury then we could avoid it.
ISTR in one bio I read that it said "they must've practiced some promitive form of birth control", implying that not only COULD Juana still get pregnant, but that she and Henry conscientiously AVOIDED it. Now, this could be on grounds of her age, she didn't want to risk it. Or Henry felt with four sons his dynasty was secure. It might only be in hindsight that them having no kids seems...odd.
Of course, this is assuming that BOTH of them were still CAPABLE of having children
Of course, this is assuming that BOTH of them were still CAPABLE of having children
Not impossible, although from Joan's POV it would be profitable for her to gave birth to king's child. Still, something may go wrong with that 'birth control'.
But let's assume that at least one child is born against the odds. If that was boy, what title he'd be given?
Duke of York was vacant after Edward of Norwich died at Agincourt, due to Richard of Conisborough's execution for treason in August the same year. Not unthinkable that Henry V creates his brother duke of York.
Other options might be promotion of either the earldoms of Kendal or Richmond to ducal rank. The dukes of Brittany lost the "honour of Richmond" in 1384, and only regained it in 1420
York would cause massive issues with Cambridge unless he's elevated to Duke of Cambridge.
Would his brother even be a duke right off? I suspect an Earldom at first. What about Kent or Surrey?
Not unthinkable.
No king's son since John of Eltham has been less than a duke, so even if he's named earl of Surrey/Kent/Kendal/Richmond, a dukedom will not be far off