Greater Spanish Civil War Interventionism

[Superdude]

The conflict between the Nationalists and Republicans in Spain was seen as a testing ground for World War 2. Expeditionary forces from the Soviet Union, Italy, and Germany battled alongside and against volunteer forces from countless nations. Terror bombing was tested, as was Germany's Blitzkrieg. However, the primary contributors to the war were corporations and dictatorial powers, and most of this aid went to the Nationalists (with the exception of the Soviet Union's.)

So, my question is this: How could we change the ideas of the Entente governments, so that they would send aid to the Republican side in this civil war?

 

[DMA]

Ideology. If the Republicans weren't so far towards the left, in other words socialist/communist, the likes of the UK & France may have gotten more involved. But both countries, in the 1930s, saw communism as a bigger threat than facism...

 

[Fenwick]

Ideology. If the Republicans weren't so far towards the left, in other words socialist/communist, the likes of the UK & France may have gotten more involved. But both countries, in the 1930s, saw communism as a bigger threat than facism...

The Republicans where far left due to UK and France not involving themselves int he war. Most have a misguided view that the Republican forces where always a stones throw from communism, but the truth is that no less then six groups made up the Republican army.

Republicans, Socialists, Anarchists, Radical Republicans, Communists, and various Centre groups. When the Civil war started much of the leader ship was wide spreading, and in fact trying to support the Government of Manuel Azaña. Democracy was a goal, as was the land, tax, housing, and business reforms in the works before the rebellion.

When the war first began the Republicans asked for assistance from France, UK, USA, and the low lands. The only one giving aide was Mexico with 50,000 rifles. France and the UK did not want to help due to the in fighting between government factions.

Spain wasn't Facist when the war began, but certain sections in the French and British military wanted a strong Spain to deter Germany. Anthony Eden wanted the Republicans to win to counter balance the Italian colonial ambitions.

So what you need is perhaps Franco stating his political stance sooner, so the conservative factions within the Western world seeing the Nationalists as Facism, and a possible threat. But that was unlike Franco, who avoided a political stance until the war was over. Franco brought together Monarchist, Facist, pro-military, pro-industry, and authoritain forces and strung them along each assuming they had the winning had.

 

[Superdude]

Spain wasn't Facist when the war began, but certain sections in the French and British military wanted a strong Spain to deter Germany. Anthony Eden wanted the Republicans to win to counter balance the Italian colonial ambitions.

Anthony Eden sent the Royal Navy to prevent Republican naval actions and protect Nationalist ports. Are you so sure he was pro-Republic?

 

[DMA]

The Republicans where far left due to UK and France not involving themselves int he war. Most have a misguided view that the Republican forces where always a stones throw from communism, but the truth is that no less then six groups made up the Republican army.

Republicans, Socialists, Anarchists, Radical Republicans, Communists, and various Centre groups. When the Civil war started much of the leader ship was wide spreading, and in fact trying to support the Government of Manuel Azaña. Democracy was a goal, as was the land, tax, housing, and business reforms in the works before the rebellion.

When the war first began the Republicans asked for assistance from France, UK, USA, and the low lands. The only one giving aide was Mexico with 50,000 rifles. France and the UK did not want to help due to the in fighting between government factions.

Spain wasn't Facist when the war began, but certain sections in the French and British military wanted a strong Spain to deter Germany. Anthony Eden wanted the Republicans to win to counter balance the Italian colonial ambitions.

So what you need is perhaps Franco stating his political stance sooner, so the conservative factions within the Western world seeing the Nationalists as Facism, and a possible threat. But that was unlike Franco, who avoided a political stance until the war was over. Franco brought together Monarchist, Facist, pro-military, pro-industry, and authoritain forces and strung them along each assuming they had the winning had.

None of which really helps the Republicans - especially as the war progresses

 

[Superdude]

With immediate aid, though, the democratic and moderate part of the Republican government would remain in power, and prevent Communist domination of politics. The problem with the Communists is that they were not numerous enough to effectively control the Republican coalition, thus weakening its cohesiveness.

 

[Fenwick]

Anthony Eden sent the Royal Navy to prevent Republican naval actions and protect Nationalist ports. Are you so sure he was pro-Republic?

Anthony Eden supported non-interference, but privatly wanted the Republic to win. He assisted in sending food, and medical supplies to the Republican forces right up to 1939.

Admiral Lord Charfield, British First Sea Lord at the time of the conflict, was an admirer of Franco and, and the most vocal in the British Royal Navy that favoured the Nationalists during the conflict.

So while yes the british government did support a blockade, they also offered food to the Republicans at the same time. Begining to see how confusing the matter is?

None of which really helps the Republicans - especially as the war progresses

Right which means if you want more aide going to the Republicans, then you need to have a POD prior to, or as soon as the war begins.

If you want the Republicans to have a better shot, simply have England mind its own business when Léon Blum wanted to send weapons down to help his ideological fellows the Spanish socialists. However such an action would most likely cause a split his alliance with the centrist Radicals, and end Blum's term as Prime Minister.

The second is to deter, or outright stop the League of Nation's Non-Intervention Committee. It was to prevent personnel and matériel reaching the warring parties of the Spanish Civil War. It was part of a policy of appeasement, aimed at preventing a Proxy war escalating into a major pan-European conflict.

 

[DMA]

Right which means if you want more aide going to the Republicans, then you need to have a POD prior to, or as soon as the war begins.

If you want the Republicans to have a better shot, simply have England mind its own business when Léon Blum wanted to send weapons down to help his ideological fellows the Spanish socialists. However such an action would most likely cause a split his alliance with the centrist Radicals, and end Blum's term as Prime Minister.

The second is to deter, or outright stop the League of Nation's Non-Intervention Committee. It was to prevent personnel and matériel reaching the warring parties of the Spanish Civil War. It was part of a policy of appeasement, aimed at preventing a Proxy war escalating into a major pan-European conflict.

Alternatively, as in my initial position, either the civil war doesn't end up about ideology; or the French &/or British have governments which are towards the left themselves; &/or France & Britain are more concerned about the spread of facism rather than communism.

 

[Fenwick]

Alternatively, as in my initial position, either the civil war doesn't end up about ideology; or the French &/or British have governments which are towards the left themselves; &/or France & Britain are more concerned about the spread of facism rather than communism.

It is almost impossible for a Civil war not have ideology for the respective sides. Look at Vietnam, Civil Wars American and English, even Russia.

Well France was Leftist at the time with the Popular Front government, but like Conservative England did not want a proxy war expanding. So you'd at the very least need to get the Western European powers to boycott, or full scale blockade Italian and German assistance. For giving out guns will expand the fighting, maybe even prolong the civil war for a decade, but stopping Italian and German aide would make the Civil war seem almost pleasant by OTL comparison .

The spread of communism did not matter the most for politicans wanted to avoid the Great War more then anything else. Sure they made attempts to contain it, but that got them to look the other way from Germany to begin with. And unless you get a really big atrocity by Hitler or Mussolini England and France will see them as the lesser of two evils.

 

[DMA]

It is almost impossible for a Civil war not have ideology for the respective sides. Look at Vietnam, Civil Wars American and English, even Russia.

Actually it depends upon the civil war. Russia is clearly an example of what you say, but Vietnam depends upon who's view yopu take. If it's American, then sure it was about ideology, but I'd bet it's different if you ask the Vietnamese. Likewise the ECW was more about whether Parliament ran England or if it was the Monarch. Ideology hardly had much to do with it. Again the ACW wasn't about ideology rather about slavery, which I don't define as an ideology.

Well France was Leftist at the time with the Popular Front government, but like Conservative England did not want a proxy war expanding. So you'd at the very least need to get the Western European powers to boycott, or full scale blockade Italian and German assistance. For giving out guns will expand the fighting, maybe even prolong the civil war for a decade, but stopping Italian and German aide would make the Civil war seem almost pleasant by OTL comparison.

Not that I disagree. Nevertheless it's grounds for a POD. And this is despite the fact that Germany wasn't in a position to challenge such intervention by the UK & France in 1936.

The spread of communism did not matter the most for politicans wanted to avoid the Great War more then anything else. Sure they made attempts to contain it, but that got them to look the other way from Germany to begin with. And unless you get a really big atrocity by Hitler or Mussolini England and France will see them as the lesser of two evils.

Well I've got to disagee here. Afterall the Western Aliies didn't send troops to Russia, from 1919 onwards, in an effort to support the White Russians. Now sure, it later only became a policy of containment, in order to avoid further warfare, but that didn't stop the UK having an anti-communist foreign policy in place. Of course having the USSR located where it was more or less ensured WWII hadn't errupted. So the Pacifists were thus happy. Meanwhile many a UK MP praised Hitler & were happy enough to view Nazi Germany as a counter to the USSR. Likewise the situation was repeated with Duce & facist Italy. Thus, whilst all this is happening from the British aspect, they won't intervene on behalf of the Republic. So the obvious POD here is for Britain to gain a left-wing Labour government, in the early 1930s, & change Britain's foreign policy wherein they greatly favour the Spanish Republicans to counter German & Italian support for the Nationalists. In doing so, I'd dare say that the French under Blum (who's politics you've pointed out) would probably likewise get involved.