French Victory in War of the Spanish Succession?
- Thread starter Wolfpaw
- Start date
So... victory in this case entails Louis XIV acheiving something he wasn't even fighting for...
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Wolfpaw
Banned
I could see the UK-Netherland union continuing in the face of this Franco-Spanish juggernaut. What would it even be called? I'd hate to think that Turtledove's rather boring "Holy Alliance" is the best we could do, though it would make sense historically. Perhaps the "Union of the Two Crowns," or even "The Dual Monarchy" a full century before A-H.
United Kingdom of Great Britain and the Netherlands (and Ireland (later, maybe)).
United Kingdoms of France and Spain?
Are you confusing this with the War of the Quadruple Alliance? Louis XIV just wanted Philip V to inherit all of Spain's possessions.
Victory for the Bourbons means Spain and Italy are dominated by the Bourbons. I wonder how the Netherlands would be dealt with, maybe given to France for convenience. The Bourbons would get Sicily, Naples, Milan, Sardinia, and keep Minorca and Gibraltar.
Also, a HUGE change in the Balance of Power. The the rest of Europe will try to unite against them for fear of dominating the Continent. The Habsburgs would be panicked as well.
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Wolfpaw
Banned
Quite possibly
But I still think that a Two Crown victory in the WoSS would be a better POD for a Franco-Spanish union than Philip's war. But maybe I'm wrong. I'll start a new thread.
New Thread Link!
IIRC the French promised some portion of the Spanish Netherlands to the Elector of Bavaria. At the time he was the 'Spanish' Governor General (he had connections to Spain since his recently deceased son Joseph Ferdinand was the one time heir and his brother was also Elector of Cologne and held neighboring Liege and Munster). He basically surrendered the place to the French in the early stages of the War before they pivoted to the Danube in an attempt to knock out the Austrians.
I wonder if the French wouldn't force the Duke of Lorraine to exchange Lorraine for Milan. It was contemplated under the Second Partition Treaty and I assume the French would rather gain Lorraine themselves than worry about Spain loosing Milan. Plus the Duke of Lorraine is heir to the Duke of Mantova so it kind of works out well for him in a way.
Well that clarifies things. I think Milan for Lorraine would be a good trade, unless the French really want to consolidate Italy for some reason. I find that doubtful, and would probably be happy with their enlarged Kingdom of Two Sicilies going to the younger sons of Philip. This would also have interesting effects on the War of Polish Succession, since the Habsburgs would be desperate to regain as much territory as they could to restore the balance of power.
I just remembered that one question that's been rolling around by head for a while but I never got to ask: What would a Franco-Spanish union be called? Just France? How would the Spanish feel about that? If it's France-Spain, or ends up that way sometime later in history, could we see some similar problems to Austria-Hungary in OTL?
I'm not sure what the Kingdom would be called, but I do remember that Philip V had problems because of his complete lack of understanding Spanish culture. When he first arrived, a poet recited this long oration praising him, which embarrassed him as he didn't know the language at all.
The Bourbons began to centralize the state of Spain in the Peninsula, and in the American Empire, which had irritated many local Cortes and elites as well who had profited from the rather decentralized neglect that Charles II and the late Hapsburg era had. Charles III is praised for more or less being the ideal Enlightened Absolute Monarch, but there was plenty of grumbling and opposition that preceded him.
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Some, at least, will call it the Borbon empire.
It might possibly not have an official name. Treaties might say 'France and Spain'.
It might possibly not have an official name. Treaties might say 'France and Spain'.