France U.S.'s closest ally?
- Thread starter RMG
- Start date
Xen
Banned
RMG said:
Get rid of DeGualle, short and simple, perhaps he is killed by an assassin in London during World War II. A more pro-US leader is installed and allows the construction of permanent US military facilities in France during the Cold War. Perhaps this new leader of France is put under the gun in the 1950s and bans the Socialist/Communist Party. The French might become more right wing and more closely tied to the US foreign policy, maybe even having French troops return to Vietnam?
Chris said:
Doubtful. FDR and Churchill trsuted each other too much. Our military strategy was too heavily intertwined. Culturally, both are anglophone nations with shared societal values and a common heritage. If de Gaulle survives, he will still hate our guts (because he was an egotistical nationalist) and convince his influencial countrymen to think the same as OTL.
Valamyr
Banned
Everything starts with earlier american intervention in WW1, and US support to a strong Versailles that gives more to France.
US intervention from the start in WW2, under League-of-Nations auspices, preventing the fall of France, killing the perception that the French are poor fighters and slugging it back to Berlin by 1943. The Gaulle never becomes important in any way.
US and France cooperating closely during the cold war.
Then US support for French indochina and Algeria, keeping the places french-ruled, thus preventing vietnam in the first place.
US support France at Suez, and then keeps its line on Israel closer to France's.
And finally, the US supports Quebec in 1995, publically indicating they would support a young french-speaking republic, allowing a narrow victory, and the breakdown of Canada.
After all this, theyd be close allies.
US intervention from the start in WW2, under League-of-Nations auspices, preventing the fall of France, killing the perception that the French are poor fighters and slugging it back to Berlin by 1943. The Gaulle never becomes important in any way.
US and France cooperating closely during the cold war.
Then US support for French indochina and Algeria, keeping the places french-ruled, thus preventing vietnam in the first place.
US support France at Suez, and then keeps its line on Israel closer to France's.
And finally, the US supports Quebec in 1995, publically indicating they would support a young french-speaking republic, allowing a narrow victory, and the breakdown of Canada.
After all this, theyd be close allies.
Valamyr said:
Problem is that it requires a dramatic political shift in the U.S. that isn't suddenly going to happen over night. Your POD is going to have to be before 1900. Anyway, I'll give a point by point comment:
Valamyr said:
Possible, but the thing that kept us out was a one hundred thirty plus years old policy set down by George Washington to stay out of European affairs and "entangling alliances." That is a powerul force and you're going to have to find a potent counter-weight to get the U.S. in earlier. Next, we didn't care for the French much either way. It was mainly about supporting the British when we finally did get in.
Versailles: A good chunk of the U.S. population was German. At the end of the day, when everything is said and done, America is a democratic republic, and taking a hardline position on Versailles is going to loose some polticians their hard earned offices. Unless you can come up with a plausible motivation for a hardline, I don't see it happening.
Valamyr said:
This is a better POD than de Gaulle's asassination, if you can get it to work. Again, U.S. had an even greater want than the last war to stay neutral. Heightened Nazi provocation or a successful Nazi plot on U.S. soil (several were attempted and none succeeded) could get us to enter the war earlier.
Valamyr said:
Post-WWII, if the U.S. kept France from falling, this is invitable.
Valamyr said:
Sounds good.
Valamyr said:
I can see support at Suez, especially after all the support the U.S. gave her in keeping her colonies (with a polite suggestion to give them more autonomy). However, I can't see a different position on Israel. I believe that an influence on France's policy toward Israel is a closer historical connection to anti-semitism, something the U.S. lacks by this time. Jews also have a long history in this country and they aren't going to be happy about the polict. Also, we supported Israel as both a democracy and a counter-weight to Communism in the region. I see France making more of a policy shift toward our OTL way of thinking.
Valamyr said:
I could see it succeeding in '95, as some in Quebec might feel that they will have more support from the big dog down South and have the confidence to vote Qui. Heck, it only has to be a shift of a few tenths of a percent. That is a fairly plausible, if not probable, change from OTL.