Fail-Safe: What Happens Next?

[gtrof]

Finished re-reading Fail-Safe by Eugene Harvey & Burdick Wheeler. It was made into a movie which follows the book's plot pretty closely. The short version, a mechanical failure in the Fail-Safe system directs a group of SAC supersonic bombers to attack their target inside the USSR, Moscow. The President has to make the Soviets believe the attack is mistake or face a general nuclear war between the superpowers. In the end the President is forced to destroy New York City to appease the Soviets and convince them its an accident.

Both the book and film are well done. After reading it I'm curious to how the post-attack world works out. Clearly the Cold War is finished at this point. The horror and near accidental war would see to that. I wonder if the President (in the novel its supposed to be Kennedy and Khrushchev is named as the leader of the Soviet Union) is hang out to dry by Congress maybe even impeached? Khrushchev's position might also be severally weakened. I wonder if it is possible that the war might break out several weeks later as the Soviets and Americans sack their leaders and put more reactionary people in their place.

 

[Valdis]

sounds like a pretty good book, did they evacuate NYC before destroying it (sorry if thats a dumb question) also is its destruction by the US realistic? but i would gather the US public to be pissed off as well as the president being impeached.

 

[PipBoy2999]

I saw that movie. Frightening.

As I recall, the President's wife was in NYC and he wouldn't allow any special effort to get her out. No, they did not evacuate the city, nor warn anyone of incoming. A US bomber was over NYC awaiting word wether or not Soviet AA belt outside Moscow stopped the errant bomber, and when it didn't, dropped a megaton on the city.

Post-event, I imagine the US President is impeached, imprisoned, and possibly hanged. Dunno about the Soviets.

 

[CT23]

I saw that movie. Frightening.

As I recall, the President's wife was in NYC and he wouldn't allow any special effort to get her out. No, they did not evacuate the city, nor warn anyone of incoming. A US bomber was over NYC awaiting word wether or not Soviet AA belt outside Moscow stopped the errant bomber, and when it didn't, dropped a megaton on the city.

Post-event, I imagine the US President is impeached, imprisoned, and possibly hanged. Dunno about the Soviets.

Just saw this movie a while back. Very interesting it was.

If I was the President, I know I would probably be finished anyway so I'd try to get my wife out.

 

[Nietzsche]

Just saw this movie a while back. Very interesting it was.

If I was the President, I know I would probably be finished anyway so I'd try to get my wife out.

And have her killed and/or raped by angry mobs who don't understand the other option involved the rest of them dying?

 

[CT23]

fair enough, I take it back.

 

[Grey Wolf]

Just saw this movie a while back. Very interesting it was.

If I was the President, I know I would probably be finished anyway so I'd try to get my wife out.

He'd probably shoot himself in the head once he knew he had succeeded in averting the more general war, but at such a terrible price. It would be inevitable he'd be impeached and found guilty.

The Veep would become President and I guess that means Johnson, but how implicated is he in the president's decision? And can he carry off being surprised and outraged, even if he secretly was implicated?

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

 

[eltf177]

The most frightening part of the movie for me was Walter Matthau's character, cold-bloodily talking about the casualties and the need to dig out the rubble of New York. This was not to help the wounded buried in the ruins but to instead rescue the records of those corporations with their home offices in NYC.

He came across as the stereotypical government employee...

 

[CT23]

He'd probably shoot himself in the head once he knew he had succeeded in averting the more general war, but at such a terrible price. It would be inevitable he'd be impeached and found guilty.

I think the President would be a dead man.

 

[Nietzsche]

He'd probably shoot himself in the head once he knew he had succeeded in averting the more general war, but at such a terrible price. It would be inevitable he'd be impeached and found guilty.

The Veep would become President and I guess that means Johnson, but how implicated is he in the president's decision? And can he carry off being surprised and outraged, even if he secretly was implicated?

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

I think the VP would declare that he is acting-president only insofar as absolutely-necessary government functions are concerned, and that a new election is to be held as soon as possible(and I don't mean him using this to become a dictator, but genuinely refusing the office, but understanding that you can't just shirk responsibility. Maybe he will declare that, after the new president is chosen, he is to be tried for potential crimes against the American people? I mean, he'd be a pretty broken man himself.)

 

[Shawn Endresen]

My major problem with it is that I don't see an attempt to limit the exchange as terribly plausible, for Kennedy or anyone else. Once it becomes clear that the bombers are going to hit Moscow and nothing the people on the ground can do will stop them...you put everything else in the air and launch every missile. The war may be an accident, but it's here now and you try to win it.

Losing New York City and then carrying on with more Cold War and more threat of future full-scale exchange is about the worst possible deal.

No sane person wants nuclear war, but lots of people weren't terrified of it at that time either.

If we take the failsafe events as given, though...the President resigns, the VP steps up, a war crimes trial seems likely but a conviction? I'm not so sure. The President was faced with a clear choice between scratching NYC and full nuclear exchange. No third option, period. Assuming the trial is not held in New York, I suspect he's acquitted for having made the correct decision. That, after all, is the point of the book/film...you can make the correct short-term decision every time, and the consequences can be horrific without adequate long-term planning and the means to stick to that long-term plan.

But yes, we get a massive realignment at the next election. I'm pretty sure the entire establishment and not just the President's party would be held accountable by the electorate. It'll take a few election cycles to sort out, but this is the death of both parties.

How does Europe react?

I'd suspect a hardliner takes over from Khruschev, but with Moscow gone, how well can they keep a lid on the sattelites? Poland, East Germany and Hungary all seem likely to sieze a bit more initiative and latitude here.

Mao gloats. I wonder what he extorts from Russia in exchange for aid?

 

[edvader]

Anyone read another book which became the basis for Dr Strangelove.?It was called Red Alert.Writer later killed himself after another WW3 book.In the book, one American bomber crashes in USSR but the bomb does NOT go off.The premier tells US president he wants to bomb one American city to even things up.Turns out to be Atlantic City-before the casinos.Dr Strangelove changed the book.BTW there was a suit by the author of first book over Fail Safe.That's why Columbia studio did both films.

 

[Geon]

Impeachment and Disarmament

I also read the book and saw the movie.

My thoughts on the matter?

The president is impeached, and after being removed from office in record time is tried and convicted for the premeditated murder of the population of New York City!

Likewise the premier of the Soviet Union whom was partially responsible for this blunder by jamming the U.S. bombers so they couldn't get their recall orders is also removed from office.

Both new governments are forced by their angry populations to order investigations into how this disaster occurred. I can see a lot of military leaders being out and out arrested on both sides for criminal negligence and dereliction of duty. The people aren't going to be satisfied in either country until all the leaders responsible for this blunder are lined up against the wall and shot!

Meanwhile the anti-nuclear/unilateral disarmament factions in this country are going to have a field day! There will be a call for the unilateral removal of all nuclear weapons. No president for the next several decades will be able to get into office without promising and delivering on some sort of disarmament deal however lopsided it may be.

How the cold war will go is anyone's guess. There will be those in Russia who will suspect this was all a trick to destroy the Russian command and control structure and that the loss of an American city was simply a necessary sacrifice. The cold war will be a lot more dangerous for many years to come. In fact, it's possible within a very short time the new premier may be pressured to concoct an incident that will allow the Russians to claim their own accident and an SLBM will destroy Washington, D.C.!

Just some food for thought.

Geon

 

[asnys]

Anyone read another book which became the basis for Dr Strangelove.?It was called Red Alert.Writer later killed himself after another WW3 book.In the book, one American bomber crashes in USSR but the bomb does NOT go off.The premier tells US president he wants to bomb one American city to even things up.Turns out to be Atlantic City-before the casinos.Dr Strangelove changed the book.BTW there was a suit by the author of first book over Fail Safe.That's why Columbia studio did both films.

I didn't read Red Alert, but I did read the one after, Commander One. Terribly depressing book if you took it seriously. The Evil Chinese trick the US and USSR into a war, only to be destroyed themselves as biological weapons kill everyone that the nukes didn't. Main characters are a group of scientists doing an experiment on a military submarine, staying locked in a chamber to simulate a mission to Mars; after six months in there they're to be let out on a desert island for a few months, then another submarine will come pick them up. Commander of the sub refuses to abort the experiment when the nukes fly (!), lets them out on the desert island, and goes home to this big bomb shelter where he discovers he is apparently the highest-ranking surviving military officer. He decides to brainwash the civilian population using hypnotic drugs into following orders (!!), then orders nuclear strikes on any surviving non-white populations in order to end the evil of racism (!!!!).

I believe it's supposed to be a devastating critique of the military mindset, but it mostly just seemed kind of silly. Decent writing, at least.