Demographics of the Worldwar Series

Darkest

Banned
I only read the first book and part of the second... but is there any mention of numbers and statistics. How many soldiers were part of the Conquest Fleet? How were the casualties different from WW2 (probably worse with all the nuclear explosions)? What's the after-war demographic scale.

I also know that in the ASB forum, in the Draka Race Aldenata timeline, they were saying that twenty million Lizards landed, while there were six million Lizard casualties or something like that.

Some information on the demographics of Worldwar would greatly help me out. Thanks.
 

davidr151

Banned
My guess is that the US had somewhere from 5 to 15 million dead cilivian and military. The book gives few statistics but it mentions that millions were threatened with starvation by the end of the war which makes me think the overall causalties were high. The book mentions that several hundred thousand each died the atomic bombings of Seattle and Washington. I dont think as many died in Chiacgo since it was largely evacuated. Millions of soldiers were killed in action since the Race had such a huge military advantage that required vastly superior numbers of American troops.
 

Darkest

Banned
"On May 30, 1942 the Race invaded Earth with millions of soldiers with the sole purpose of conquering the entire planet."
From the Turtlewiki. Hm.
 

Darkest

Banned
Wikipedia said:
The Race has settled and plans to colonize nearly half the surface of the Earth. This half includes Africa, Australia, China, southern Asia, Central America, and South America. The United States, Canada, the Soviet Union, the Greater German Reich (Germany and the territories it occupied during World War II), Britain, and Japan are the only other powers when the Race's colonization fleet of eighty to one hundred million settlers arrives.
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I wonder why they didn't give an exact number?
 
Thande

Thande

Donor
Because that figure comes from Sam Yeager asking Ullhass and Ristin about it in 1944, and they didn't know the exact numbers.

Certainly, if the colonisation fleet is 80-100 million, the conquest fleet must be significantly less for that to seem like a big number to Yeager (who presumably already knows some figures for the current number of Lizards on Earth). I'd say something between 5 and 20 million for the conquest fleet. No idea what the casualties might be - Atvar might have modern attitudes about combat casualties, where just a few hundred could be seen as unsustainable (although that's unlikely, given the number of Lizards killed over the course of the series)
 
Thande

Thande

Donor
Pax Britannia said:
The Race population must be huge for 80-100 million of them to want to colonise other planets all in one go.
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I don't know if it was necessarily of their own accord - they plan these things millennia in advance, and there's a mention of aptitude tests that slot members of the Race into their jobs without any input from them (Atvar mentions that he was given a choice of either being fleetlord of the conquest fleet or an architect).
 

Darkest

Banned
If you mean the Second World War in saying the Eurasian War, then I would say most definitely. Thinks of all of the military confrontations possible in South America, Africa, Australia, Middle East, China. There is a whole new front in North America. Seventeen cities were destroyed by nuclear weapons. The Race drove the Humans to the brink of destruction.

Then, if you add in casualties from the Holocaust... *shivers* Say goodbye to all of the Jews, half-Jews, quarter-Jews throughout Europe (except for Poland, Spain, and Britain).

I'm going to say the Conquest Fleet numbered 14 million. Is that satisfactory?
 
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Thande

Thande

Donor
Darkest said:
If you mean the Second World War in saying the Eurasian War, then I would say most definitely. Thinks of all of the military confrontations possible in South America, Africa, Australia, Middle East, China. There is a whole new front in North America. Seventeen cities were destroyed by nuclear weapons. The Race drove the Humans to the brink of destruction.

Then, if you add in casualties from the Holocaust... *shivers* Say goodbye to all of the Jews, half-Jews, quarter-Jews throughout Europe (except for Poland, Spain, and Britain).
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He means the Eurasian War as in the Eurasian War in the Draka series.
 

Darkest

Banned
Oh, right. Hm... I wouldn't know. Hard to compute. What someone could do is discover the populations of the cities nuked, in 1942-1944, and get a sum death toll from that.
 
Redem

Redem

Darkest said:
Oh, right. Hm... I wouldn't know. Hard to compute. What someone could do is discover the populations of the cities nuked, in 1942-1944, and get a sum death toll from that.
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Well also consider the death toll of all the fighting
 

Fallen Angel

Well, the Race doesn't have (or need) a industrial base for its attacks in the beginning. Every member of the Conquest fleet is pretty much a soldier, with no planned or needed industrial support. My estimation was always thus that there were about 8-10 million of them.

(Or about three times as many as the Current U.S. Armed Forces. And that they were no more casualty / violence adverse than Americans were in the 1960s. (Ginger addiction being a big parallel to vietnam era drug use.)

8-10 illion Combat Trained Volunteers of the U.S. military with enough supplies to last them 2-3 years might make more than a good go of conquering the world in 1943. In fact, they probably would succeed. It's only the lizards mental limitations that keep them from being successful.
 

Riain

Banned
As perspective, during the real WW2 the USA mobilised 15 million people, the SU 22 mil, Germany 17 mil, Britain and co 12 mil. Both Germany and Russia had armies of about 3 mil in June '41, and peaked at 5.5 and 6.7 mil respectively.
 

Fallen Angel

Riain said:
As perspective, during the real WW2 the USA mobilised 15 million people, the SU 22 mil, Germany 17 mil, Britain and co 12 mil. Both Germany and Russia had armies of about 3 mil in June '41, and peaked at 5.5 and 6.7 mil respectively.
Click to expand...

True. Just keep in mind that the Race has 90s tech and the least, and future tech in some instances. Their kill ratios against humans are mentioned to be somewhere between 15:25 to one during the books, and I can't help but think that they'd have been even higher under human leadership...and the race probably..even after realizing humanity was more advanced...thought they'd bee much higher. If you peg their numbers too high, than you'd have a damndable time explaind why they'd have any problems conquering the planet besides hand wavium.
 

Darkest

Banned
I think the Race definitely has 1990's technology on all fronts, EXCEPT 1) hydrogen-fueled tech, 2) holographics, 3) hibernation tech and of course 4) interstellar travel.

15:25 kill ratio? Seems like there would be more human deaths. I definitely know that they had a 5:1 kill ratio in armored combat (tanks). And, the Race were almost totally unmatched with their airforce, especially at the beginning of the invasion.
 

Fallen Angel

Darkest said:
I think the Race definitely has 1990's technology on all fronts, EXCEPT 1) hydrogen-fueled tech, 2) holographics, 3) hibernation tech and of course 4) interstellar travel.

15:25 kill ratio? Seems like there would be more human deaths. I definitely know that they had a 5:1 kill ratio in armored combat (tanks). And, the Race were almost totally unmatched with their airforce, especially at the beginning of the invasion.
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By 15:25 I mean the race, depending on time and front, killed between 15-25 humans per 1 lizard lost. Not 15:25 overal...understand? :eek:

So, even a mere 10 Million race soldeirs could be expected to take out 150 million (approx) humans before being worn down, or more than twice the number of people that died in WWII - including holocaust and everythign - and that's at they're lower kill ratio and not including nuclear bombs.
 
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Riain

Banned
Even if the race bought 10 mil with them, how many of those are farting around in orbit etc, and not fighting? How many more are involved in force multiplication, such as inflight refueling and AEW and other surveilence? Is this counterbalanced by the race superweapons needing less resources (fuel, maintainence, fighting personell etc) to do a better job than, say, an F15E or M1A2?
 

Darkest

Banned
How many ships did the Conquest Fleet actually consist of? Could help us figure out how many Lizards are needed for maintenance, logistics, strategical planning, etc. up in space. The Race knew they were coming to invade a planet, maybe they would make their killercraft and landcruisers a little more reliable. I would say not, though. The Race thought their weapons would be used for shock-and-awe tactics and moderate levels of occupation.

By 15:25 I mean the race, depending on time and front, killed between 15-25 humans per 1 lizard lost. Not 15:25 overal...understand?
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Ah... okay. I apologize, I misunderstood your numbers. The death toll ratio could be 15-25 to 1 for conventional offensive warfare. I'd like to keep nuclear deaths and holocaust-related tolls seperate. However, how much of the Conquest Fleet's army is needed to occupy their new territories, and how many are actually waging offensive warfare? I would think that the Race would use up a majority if not plurality of its forces just as occupying forces in South America, Africa, and Asia.
 
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