Delvestius
Banned
When would be the best point in time to break up the U.S. into at least four countries? The countries don't all have to declare independence at once, but within 50 years of your PoD.
Best PoD for a shattered USA
- Thread starter Delvestius
- Start date
California and Texas stay independent and the Confederacy wins independence.
POD: Texas stays independent, we'll say 1835 as it. California is never annexed and the Civil War sees the south let go peacefully in 1861.
POD: Texas stays independent, we'll say 1835 as it. California is never annexed and the Civil War sees the south let go peacefully in 1861.
I don't see any reason why would Texas and California would stay as independence countries. In both countries had groups whose wanted independence but Unionists were stronger and USA wanted them too.
And best way for dissolve United States would be that which would create worse civil war and the country would collapse.
Five Nations
1835 is a good point...or after a Union defeat in the Civil War..followed by Texas seceding from the Confederacy..and California seceding from the Union..and the Pacific Northwest following suit. The Rockies and the Great Plains might be up for grabs, or the Native Americans may stand a chance, for a while at least of holding their own as an independent nation. That would be five nations..The somewhat United States, The Confederate States, The Republic of Texas, The Republic of California, The Northwest Republic, and the Indian Confederation.
1835 is a good point...or after a Union defeat in the Civil War..followed by Texas seceding from the Confederacy..and California seceding from the Union..and the Pacific Northwest following suit. The Rockies and the Great Plains might be up for grabs, or the Native Americans may stand a chance, for a while at least of holding their own as an independent nation. That would be five nations..The somewhat United States, The Confederate States, The Republic of Texas, The Republic of California, The Northwest Republic, and the Indian Confederation.
Not that they wouldn't want to...that they couldn't..the beging of the Civil War..in 1850..rather than the Compromise of 1850..and the North would be much weaker, and the Old northwest..like Minnesota and Wisconsin and Illinois and Iowa would be much more attached to the South by way of the Mississippi.
The Consitutional Convention fails or never takes place. The Articles of Confederation were too weak to maintain a Union let alone provide a base for expansion. Vermont remains independent and within some years the membership of the Confederation dissolves into several Independent Confederations and/or the trans Appalachian settlers form their own nations. Anything may happen on the rest of the continent between the British, Mexicans, SPanish and Native Americans. In this scenario there may be even more incentive for AMerican settlers to move to places like Texas but then there most likely would be an independent Texas since there would not be a strong USA to join.
If you want "One PoD to rule them all", there is only one likely candidate once the Federal Union is established in 1789. The American Civil War. A Confederate victory woud create two federal republics, each of which could face further secessionist pressures. Texas secession from the CSA is a common (and believable) AH meme. and one could construct ample plausible reasons for further disintegration of the CSA, Utah (Deseret) independence, and US loss of California.
Of course you could create a timeline in which the temporary "United States" created during the American Revolutionary War did not survive and conflict, power-jockying, and mergers among the 13 Colonies could create 4 different countries.
Of course you could create a timeline in which the temporary "United States" created during the American Revolutionary War did not survive and conflict, power-jockying, and mergers among the 13 Colonies could create 4 different countries.
Will Kürlich Kerl
Banned
Constitutional Convention fails to achieve anything. The states all break apart.
Will Kürlich Kerl
Banned
The Cheap Way Out: Nuclear War between the USA and the USSR, or Yellowstone Supervolcano erupts.
A more unlikely way: USA does horrible in War of 1812, Great Britain receives the Old Northwest and converts into an Indian Confederacy. New England secedes, and when the issue of slavery comes in the rump-USA, the nation might split into a pro-slavery country and an anti-slavery country.
A more unlikely way: USA does horrible in War of 1812, Great Britain receives the Old Northwest and converts into an Indian Confederacy. New England secedes, and when the issue of slavery comes in the rump-USA, the nation might split into a pro-slavery country and an anti-slavery country.
There was a very interesting discussion a time ago where the US somehow annexes Mexico after the American-Mexican War and enters a long period of guerrilla warfare as occupation continues and the South tries to make slave states. The US and Mexico collpase under the stress, eventually ending on a balkanized North America.
I'm thinking about doing a timeline where the antebellum US is ruled primarily by slave-owners from Virginia like Jefferson. When the Civil War breaks out, the Yankees are the rebels, and the Southerners are defending the United States. The North still wins, but it's a much different kind of victory than in OTL. First, they have to gain independence from the South. Then, they have to conquer the South under a new independent government. How does that sound?
-No constitution, all states go their separate ways and split the western lands
This means 15 different nations, the states, Spain, Britain and Russia
-Houston dies and Lamar gets reelected long enough for Texas to stop wanting to join the union.
This means 5 nations, US, Mexico, Texas, Russia, Britain
-Civil war + combination of stuff
This means 15 different nations, the states, Spain, Britain and Russia
-Houston dies and Lamar gets reelected long enough for Texas to stop wanting to join the union.
This means 5 nations, US, Mexico, Texas, Russia, Britain
-Civil war + combination of stuff
Interesting. Did you ever read the Rivers of War series? I wish it had been finished but the premise is that the issue of slavery is forced decades earlier than our Civil War. The result is a Civil War where the South has the population and military advantage and the North is arguing for state's rights. I still can't see the North seeking independence though. I think they'd be much more likely to deny the legitimacy of the the federal government and form their own true government rather than seek to go their own way.