Banning the National Socialists

[Adam]

Say, in 1931, President Hindenburg bans the NSDAP from the Reichstag using Special Emergency Powers. What would come out of an action such as this? Would it even be possible for the Hindenburg to do this?

 

[Max Sinister]

I think during Weimar it wasn't possible to forbid parties. (Other organizations, like the SA and SS, could be forbidden and were so, sometimes.)

There'd been a lot of turmoil, but in the end, things would turn out better.

 

[Nekromans]

Not for the Jews, it wouldn't. The Holocaust and the Nuremberg Laws made anti-Semitism unacceptable, so in a paradoxical way they actually helped Judaism.

 

[Max Sinister]

But they paid an extremely high price for it.

 

[Calgacus]

Not for the Jews, it wouldn't. The Holocaust and the Nuremberg Laws made anti-Semitism unacceptable, so in a paradoxical way they actually helped Judaism.

But anti-semitism wasn't a particularly extreme problem in Wilhelmine Germany, only in the troubled times which came after, when they were scapegoated. I'm sure that if the Weimar Republic had survived, the anti-semitism would have faded as well.

 

[HueyLong]

Not for the Jews, it wouldn't. The Holocaust and the Nuremberg Laws made anti-Semitism unacceptable, so in a paradoxical way they actually helped Judaism.

This is an idea that I'm toying with in my TL- that anti-Semitism in the mainstream was moderated by Hitler's Nazi Germany.

 

[panzerjay]

anti-semitism would not have faded because the political apparatus is gone. hate and apathy is grounded in the culture of a people and some event would trigger pogrom

 

[Croesus]

Say, in 1931, President Hindenburg bans the NSDAP from the Reichstag using Special Emergency Powers. What would come out of an action such as this?

I think that Hitler would *love* Hindenburg to do this. The NSDAP are doing very nicely at this time: they're the second largest party, Mein Kampf is selling well and they've got a nice and shiny new HQ in Munich. The campaign chest is swelling as industrialised interests start hedging in case of an NSDAP government while the army is very interested in Hitlers position on militarisation and Versailles.

Hitler is at his political best during this period. His career is notable for his ability to capitalise on publicity and outwit the establishment. He uses the ban to make a play for power and is successful.

How does this play out? He looks at the Stennes incident and concludes that the SA is his ticket. He uses the newly appointed Rohm to apply a little less control to the more revolutionary minded sections of the SA. Beatings, burnings, riots as the SA protests vigorously against such an unreasonable and unrepresentative imposition by a foolish old man trapped in the senile glories of his past.

Hitler, retired to Berchtesgarden, wounded but respectful of the old lion implores the headstrong youth to be calm and accept the direction of their elders and betters. Alas the unrest spreads and soon old wounds begin to be reopened. Alarm begins to spread amongst both conservative and liberal Germany.

Hitler respectfully requests an audience with Hindenburg, and begins to turn the political screws. He runs rings around the old goat and manages to position Hindenburg in the court of public opinion as inflexible and unrealistic.

Meanwhile Rohm, taking advantage of the self-selection exhibited by the revolutionary elements of the SA, organises a loyalist counter-move. Seeing his opportunity, Himmler also becomes involves... but his time is not yet come for a full show of force.

The timing now seems right: Hindenburg is positioned as a reactionary and the popular outburst of passion exemplified by the revolutionary SA is threatening the peace. Hitler forces Hindenburg to back down by threatening a unilateral solution to the SA rioting. Humbled Hindenburg grants Hitler emergency powers to halt the unrest, and Rohm and Himmler clean out the revolutionary SA.

The SA is now smaller and more tame; the SS is larger and further advanced. Hitler is the hero of the hour, Hindenburg is revealed as a paper tiger. The military-industrial interest groups know they've backed the right horse. Events accelerate; Germany is better prepared for war.

... or something like that...

Croesus

 

[Nicole]

Not for the Jews, it wouldn't. The Holocaust and the Nuremberg Laws made anti-Semitism unacceptable, so in a paradoxical way they actually helped Judaism.

As long as you aren't one of the six million victims of Nazism, of course.

And everything was moving towards tolerance anyway... you didn't need a holocaust of Catholics for anti-Catholicism to become a fringe idea, for example.

 

[Norbert714]

Not for the Jews, it wouldn't. The Holocaust and the Nuremberg Laws made anti-Semitism unacceptable, so in a paradoxical way they actually helped Judaism.

Not only that, but it got them their state. They did indeed pay a price, but I feel that it was only a matter of time before something big simultaneously hurt the Jews and pushed non-antisemitic states to action...other wise, they would still be scattered and oppressed generally.

 

[Susano]

That is indeed the problem with forbidding parties: It only serves a purpose if it is an already sucessful party, but if it IS, then banning wont help much! Even if Hitler doesnt use the shrewed strategy as explored by Calg, ex-NSDAPers can simply form another party, and then yet another, etc etc etc. Or politcial influence besides party. Of course this is not only a historica but also a contemporary politcial statement, but I do think banning parties is useless.