McPherson
Banned
Not if it fries the !@# !@#%ed radar you need to steer to intercept the next wave of inbounds with the inevitable EMP..
America Be Watching With The Popcorn: A Sino-Soviet War TL
- Thread starter theflyingmongoose
- Start date
marathag
Banned
PARS and MSR were hardened from EMP, like most military gear, and especially those expected to work with nuclear detonations as part of their reason for existing.
They used a million watt Maser for missile command and telemetry
marathag
Banned
But they were.
5,000 Phased Array elements at the MSR, Missile Site Radar, for each 'Face', EMP hardened, plus four foot thick walls
Possibly but he could also state that the reunified state should reflect the whole of Korea in its government and not something built for the south. I can see it going either way, perhaps he tries and fails due to the backlash from opposition groups.
Marcos in Manilla, Klyptocrat as he was, had the covering of fighting the new People's army. Park always claimed a need to fight communism and corruption.
McPherson
Banned
No they were not.But they were.
5,000 Phased Array elements at the MSR, Missile Site Radar, for each 'Face', EMP hardened, plus four foot thick walls
In order for a radar to work, it has to receive radio waves. Hardening (Good Faraday defense) not only creates electromagnetic opacity it defeats radio reception. You have blinded the radar.
Now then... You subjected a phased array radar to about the worst event a radar can face, a blast of elecrtromagnetic radiation from an X-ray boosted 5 MT device radiating to its antennas that will do two things.
Ground the antenna out and burn it out by raising its temperature beyond its fail point.
I lived on Kwajalein in 1962-1963 (with my parents, my dad worked for Bell Labs). I saw many “Zeus“ test launches, including the first “successful“ intercept of an Atlas missile fired from Vandenberg (apparently it was close enough to be considered a kill if a nuclear warhead had been fitted). It occurred at night and the whole island was outside to watch. The rentering Atlas looked like a meteor with everyone oohing and aahing; until the Zeus launched, which sounded like a shotgun going off next to your head! The speed of the Zeus was unbelievable. Great fun for a 12 year old!
ric350
ric350
All those hardened antenna associated with ICBM silos were supposed to let Looking Glass remotely launch missiles if a nuclear blast had took out the local control centre were just for show? Seems more probable they can be hardened or at least have a shielded spare or two ( might be built into what appears to be a single array) that can be unshielded if the primary is taken out.
marathag
Banned
Spartan was out of the atmosphere, far beyond where it could effect the MSR. This was tested with the Pacific testing for Nike Zeus. Sprint, and its1 kt neutron warhead, was for the short range intercepts. But everything was shock mounted and protected, like Cheyenne Mountain. Every Warheads the Soviets or Chinese targeted on the MSR, was one less going towards a missile field or city
There were four of these Sprint sites around the MSR,
2nd Phased Array were developed to avoid the difficulties of standard slaved radar antennas in a high energy environment
EMP protection was possible beyond cages.
There's enough unclassified info out there to check up on that, and how the PAR and MSR were setup
The system would have been extremely effective in thinning out a strike and reducing the damage done while horribly complicating the targeting picture. It was also where the money has been going, and expanding it is much much faster than an all-new system based on repurposed ICBMs and Talos (neither of which have the correct kinematics for ballistic missile intercept).
Well, with this developement is very probable that this program (among others) will continue:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_nuclear_weapons_program (this will probably mean that other program will be axed like the AMX...better as the MB-339k Veltro II is good enough available immediately and cheaper)
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
With the general communist image taking an immense hit and the earlier end of the Vietnam War the political life of Western Europe in the 70's will be pretty different and hopefully more peacefull
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_nuclear_weapons_program (this will probably mean that other program will be axed like the AMX...better as the MB-339k Veltro II is good enough available immediately and cheaper)
Taiwan and weapons of mass destruction - Wikipedia
Sweden and weapons of mass destruction - Wikipedia
With the general communist image taking an immense hit and the earlier end of the Vietnam War the political life of Western Europe in the 70's will be pretty different and hopefully more peacefull
McPherson
Banned
Why do America's latest versions use hit to kill interceptors? Even the enemy ABM systems have conventional kill methods. There is a reason why non-nuclear ABM systems are the preferred ones.
Exo-atmospheric EMP blasts would still spike and fry aerials. And radars to see USE aerials.
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Because with the ABM treaty, the Americans decided that the system wasn't worth the trouble to keep running or developing further for one site and shut the program down. And at that time, the technology was not ready for a hit to kill system for exo-atmospheric intercepts. We now have that capability and in the cause of limiting proliferation of nuclear weapons decided to go with a non-nuclear system.
Radars do use aerials. And a phased array can use hundreds to thousands and each of those aerials has a hardening filter on it to protect from EMP. Will some of them fail? More than likely but the system will continue even in a slightly degraded way. EMP spikes are not a magic spell and the issues have been known about since Starfish Prime in the early sixties. They researched the hell out of the problem and found fixes for it and then designed the system for it. That's why the military uses hardening on a lot of equipment. So it is still usable in a nuclear environment.
If you want a fascinating read of the whole development of the American ABM Program from Nike-X to Safeguard, have a gander at this:
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McPherson
Banned
Not exactly as I have pointed out.
And as I have pointed out, the individual transmitter receivers en masse have a heat burden and voltage spike limit which is easily exceeded. The Starfish Prime shot has been the reason that limited explosive flux capacitance HPM bombs have been fielded. A limited reach degradation weapon was desired to blank enemy radars and scramble enemy communication systems, including supposedly shielded ones.
You might want to LOOK at that....
Figure 1-21. The Defensive Missile
From that study....
Figure 1-22. Fly's Eye Antenna
Figure 1-23. Fly's Eye Antenna Feedhorn Structure
Figure 1-24. Fly's Eye Antenna Coverage
It goes on, but the point was that in order for the radar to work at all, hardening was nigh impossible of the T/Rs. And close detonation of the Interceptors, which was bound to happen, would blind the radars.
The points have changed from burning out the radar from EMP to blackouts and degradation of signals from the detonations. OK. Which is why the Nike-X system, the research of which which you showed above, was cancelled, due to limited engagement capacity and radar blackouts. Further on down on page I-44:
They knew they had a problem with the blackout and EMP. That's why they went with a phased array and the UHF band as a counter to it.
Now would it work as an integrated battle-system on the day? I don't know.
Would they test the living shit out of it to get to going? Yep but no promises.
Would it stop every single re-entry vehicle? Not a chance in hell.
But if your looking for an ABM system in 1970; in the States; ready to go then Sentinel + is it.
It's a game of virtual attrition. Anything undefended will need two warheads for highest guarantee of destruction. Anything that is defended. How important is it to destroy? How many warheads will be needed to absolutely ensure that target will be gone. Might hit it on the first. Might hit it on the twentieth. But you still have to shoot all twenty at once. For example, the SS-18 had 10 MIRV with a hard kill capacity. The common belief is that they were aimed at the Minuteman silos; I don't know. So take two SS-18 that would normally be targeted a 10 Minuteman silos and put them on other one target just to make sure. That quickly dwindles your reserves in the planning department. ICBMs are not cheap or simple and MIRVs will help somewhat with the increase of reliability issues and fratricide.
Safeguard is horribly expensive but once the infrastructure is built, expansion of the missiles is cheaper due to being ground guided than an ICBM with internal guidance.
As for the Soviets; what are their choices. Increase the ICBM force? Build an ABM system? Do both and reduce the conventional forces? Do all and drive the economy into the ground? Or attack before it's ready?
They knew they had a problem with the blackout and EMP. That's why they went with a phased array and the UHF band as a counter to it.
Now would it work as an integrated battle-system on the day? I don't know.
Would they test the living shit out of it to get to going? Yep but no promises.
Would it stop every single re-entry vehicle? Not a chance in hell.
But if your looking for an ABM system in 1970; in the States; ready to go then Sentinel + is it.
It's a game of virtual attrition. Anything undefended will need two warheads for highest guarantee of destruction. Anything that is defended. How important is it to destroy? How many warheads will be needed to absolutely ensure that target will be gone. Might hit it on the first. Might hit it on the twentieth. But you still have to shoot all twenty at once. For example, the SS-18 had 10 MIRV with a hard kill capacity. The common belief is that they were aimed at the Minuteman silos; I don't know. So take two SS-18 that would normally be targeted a 10 Minuteman silos and put them on other one target just to make sure. That quickly dwindles your reserves in the planning department. ICBMs are not cheap or simple and MIRVs will help somewhat with the increase of reliability issues and fratricide.
Safeguard is horribly expensive but once the infrastructure is built, expansion of the missiles is cheaper due to being ground guided than an ICBM with internal guidance.
As for the Soviets; what are their choices. Increase the ICBM force? Build an ABM system? Do both and reduce the conventional forces? Do all and drive the economy into the ground? Or attack before it's ready?
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