Alternative History Armoured Fighting Vehicles Part 3

[Gillan1220]

Also, I get the feeling the US will simply pressure the Filipino army to buy Abrams over anything else, if they ever considered getting MBTs.

The U.S. would have done that a long time ago but I don't think the economic situation of the 90s to the 2000s would have permitted the AFP from getting the Abrams. This discussion thread from Quora summarizes why MBTs are gamble for the Philippines:

What main battle tank will the Philippines have?

Answer (1 of 4): Using a Main Battle Tank in the terrain of the Philippines will be difficult and counter-productive unless used only in limited areas such as highly urbanized environments and relatively flat terrain that has firm ground. Such a heavy tank of more than thirty to forty tons will n...

www.quora.com

Meanwhile, there was a discussion in PH defense forum that the Philippines may look at older M1 Abrams tanks (the original variant used in the 80s-90s, not the M1A1 or the M1A2) but none has materialized so far.

In the meantime, the current administration has plans to buy tanks from Russia, AFAIK no steps has been done.

That's because of CAATSA. If the AFP wanted to get surplus Russian tanks, the best time to have done it was before 2017.

 

[ThirdyLovesAH]

The U.S. would have done that a long time ago but I don't think the economic situation of the 90s to the 2000s would have permitted the AFP from getting the Abrams. This discussion thread from Quora summarizes why MBTs are gamble for the Philippines:

What main battle tank will the Philippines have?

Answer (1 of 4): Using a Main Battle Tank in the terrain of the Philippines will be difficult and counter-productive unless used only in limited areas such as highly urbanized environments and relatively flat terrain that has firm ground. Such a heavy tank of more than thirty to forty tons will n...

www.quora.com

Meanwhile, there was a discussion in PH defense forum that the Philippines may look at older M1 Abrams tanks (the original variant used in the 80s-90s, not the M1A1 or the M1A2) but none has materialized so far.

That's because of CAATSA. If the AFP wanted to get surplus Russian tanks, the best time to have done it was before 2017.

Well I guess, we will use light tanks in the meantime.

 

[Gillan1220]

Well I guess, we will use light tanks in the meantime.

Some proposed that the AFP use the French AMX-10 tank destroyer. It basically looks like an LAV-25 or LAV-300 with a tank turret.

 

[wietze]

Some proposed that the AFP use the French AMX-10 tank destroyer. It basically looks like an LAV-25 or LAV-300 with a tank turret.

i think it would be a good choice, esp since it is fully amphibious

 

[Uruk]

I really dont get this Indonesia and the Philippines are stupid to get MBTs... It isnt like they are defending some islets or should the UK,Japan and Irland also only get amphibious tanks?

 

[Musketeer513]

I was wondering would this work? In a moment of rare German-Italian industrial co-operation German in 1942 supplied Italy with Kwk 38 and Pak 75/38 guns to rearm the M14/41. The organization for the Italians would be similar to the German Mark3/4 usage with 3 companies armed the the 50mm gun and the fourth with the 75mm gun. I don’t have enough information to know if these guns would fit but I know it would have been a vast improvement of the Italian armored forces if it had.

 

[Musketeer513]

I know the Germans tried to fit a Panther turret to the Mark 4 and it was just to heavy. Would it have been possible to just arm the Mark 4 with the Panther’s gun?

 

[Life In Black]

I was wondering would this work? In a moment of rare German-Italian industrial co-operation German in 1942 supplied Italy with Kwk 38 and Pak 75/38 guns to rearm the M14/41. The organization for the Italians would be similar to the German Mark3/4 usage with 3 companies armed the the 50mm gun and the fourth with the 75mm gun. I don’t have enough information to know if these guns would fit but I know it would have been a vast improvement of the Italian armored forces if it had.

You might be able to get the 5cm Kwk 38 to fit, but the old 75mm cannon you mention would almost certainly be way too big for the relatively small turrets. Keep in mind Italy never mounted its 75/18 cannon in the M.13/14/15 series of tanks, and instead made an entirely new assault gun to use that cannon based on the same chassis. Plus, the 47/40 cannon of the M.15/42 would likely be sufficient anyway at fulfilling the same role as the 5cm.

I know the Germans tried to fit a Panther turret to the Mark 4 and it was just to heavy. Would it have been possible to just arm the Mark 4 with the Panther’s gun?

I believe there was also the thought of mounting the 7.5cm Kwk 42 L/70 in a Pz.Kpfw. IV turret, but this likely would have been a disaster and would have been impractical and inefficient had it actually been built.

 

[Jim Smitty]

How Birthdays should be spent

@La Rouge Beret enjoy yours

 

[BlackDragon98]

I know the Germans tried to fit a Panther turret to the Mark 4 and it was just to heavy. Would it have been possible to just arm the Mark 4 with the Panther’s gun?

I've seen the reverse, a Panzer IV turret on a Panther.
Pretty sure it was a command tank.

 

[cortz#9]

I've seen the reverse, a Panzer IV turret on a Panther.
Pretty sure it was a command tank.

It was intended for recon duty. Here's a pic of one with a Porsche Tiger.

Two rare Panzers in one picture.

 

[BlackDragon98]

It was intended for recon duty. Here's a pic of one with a Porsche Tiger.

Two rare Panzers in one picture.

Ah, I remember seeing this image.
The Porsche Tiger was the command tank (all the rest were converted to Ferdinand TDs), not the Panther with the Panzer IV turret.

 

[La Rouge Beret]

How Birthdays should be spent

@La Rouge Beret enjoy yours

That's so insane I just might do it.

Guess I just got older and didn't grow up.

 

[Jim Smitty]

That's so insane I just might do it.

Guess I just got older and didn't grow up.

Yeah we all get older, but I'm still haven't grown up yet either.

 

[cortz#9]

That's so insane I just might do it.

Guess I just got older and didn't grow up.

Yeah we all get older, but I'm still haven't grown up yet either.

What is this "growing up" that you two keep referencing?

 

[Claymore]

2020 can best be summed up by a badge (button) I use to have which said, "Smile they said, life could be worse... So I did, and it was!"

Here's hoping that 2021 brings a change for the better and, with that thought in mind, may I wish you all a very happy, safe and healthy New Year... and keep smiling!

 

[La Rouge Beret]

Likewise to my fellow tread heads may 2021 be a cracking year for one and all.

But first to sleep as I am well passed my bed time.

#dadlife

 

[cortz#9]

2020 can best be summed up by a badge (button) I use to have which said, "Smile they said, life could be worse... So I did, and it was!"

Here's hoping that 2021 brings a change for the better and, with that thought in mind, may I wish you all a very happy, safe and healthy New Year... and keep smiling!

View attachment 612539

Here's hoping you and all my fellow tread-heads have a much, much better new year and the pic below sums up my feelings for 2020.

 

[Jim Smitty]

I'm more expecting this

 

[cortz#9]

I'm more expecting this

And staring "Us" as the poor miserable bastards.