Alternate warships of nations

County Class Destroyer (Westralia Variant).

The Westralia was the first of the Australian derivatives of the British County Class guided missile destroyer.
The distinguishing features of this subclass was the steam based powerplant and the use of the Tartar Missile
in lieu of the unwieldy British Sea Slug, which resulted the ships being built in Australian shipyards.

All three ships served a similar role in the RAN service (fleet air defence) with a refit in the early 70s, effectively deleting most of the aft weapon systems. The foremost 4.5" Turret was replaced with a licence build of the Franco-British Dart missile system. This made the Sea Cat and Tartar missile systems more or less redundant, which allowed for thecinstallment of helicopter aviation facilities. These ships remained in service until the early 80s with the Destroyer variant of the Standard Hull Escort (the Type 40).

Their RN half sisters on the other hand, had shorter, but more convoluted service history.
The second were used as testbeds for the Excalibur General Purpose Cruise Missle system.
There was also a small hangar bay for ASW but the retention of the Sea Cat missiles made for a small,
cramped aviation platform, and so their primary function was as a missile cruiser until their formal replacement with the purpose built Port Class cruiser in the mid 70s.
 
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County Class Destroyer (Westralia Variant).The Westralia was the first of the Australian derivatives of the British County Class guided missile destroyer. The distinguishing features of this subclass was the steam based powerplant and the use of the Tartar Missile in lieu of the unwieldy British Sea Slug, which resulted the ships being built in Australian shipyards.

All three ships served a similar role in the RAN service (fleet air defence) with a refit in the early 70s, effectively deleting most of the aft weapon systems. The foremost 4.5" Turret was replaced with a licence build of the Franco-British Dart missile system. This made the Sea Cat and Tartar missile systems more or less redundant, which allowed for thecinstallment of helicopter aviation facilities. These ships remained in service until the early 80s with the Destroyer variant of the Standard Hull Escort (the Type 40).

Their RN half sisters on the other hand, had shorter, but more convoluted service history. The second were used as testbeds for the Excalibur General Purpose Cruise Missle system. There was also a small hangar bay for ASW but the retention of the Sea Cat missiles made for a small, cramped aviation platform, and so their primary function was as a missile cruiser until their formal replacement with the purpose built Port Class cruiser in the mid 70s.
I think you sold yourself short with this one. The County class was probably large enough to accommodate a Mk 10 launcher with 2 or 3 rotating magazines for 40 or 60 longer range Terrier missiles. Furthermore the Mk 10 launcher could also fire ASROC.

AFAIK the Y.100 steam plant used by the Australian built Type 12s was also built in Australia. Does the all-steam power plant used by the Westralia consist of a pair of them arranged on the unit system?
 
You're probably right, it does represent a lost opportunity.
That and post war ship design isn't my strong suit, so I'm playing it safe.:)

It's an idea I have for the future of the Mers el Kebir Resolution.

The ship design does have the unit system arrangement for the steam plant. As for the Dart, it's part of the Commonwealth's move
toward standardising along Franco British lines.
 
I think you sold yourself short with this one. The County class was probably large enough to accommodate a Mk 10 launcher with 2 or 3 rotating magazines for 40 or 60 longer range Terrier missiles. Furthermore the Mk 10 launcher could also fire ASROC.
Perhaps - but the version of the County class that they requested was with Tartar. No, I don't know why.

An all-steam County with a Mark 10 would be very interesting indeed. There probably isn't enough hull depth for a three-ring magazine, but two rings would go quite nicely. It might even be possible to redesign Sea Slug to take an inline boost... it was actually more reliable and performed better than the beam-riding Terriers. Difference is, the USN fixed Terrier whilst the RN all but abandoned Sea Slug. Sadly, there's little chance of getting a second Wessex in, but two SPG-55 illuminators would make a huge difference to the ship's capability.
 
Well here, the Sea slug follows the theoretical anti ship/nuclear redesign with some help from the Exocet project (which ran more or less concurrently with the Sea Slug 2 development).

No attack on Mers el Kebir, warmer relations between Britain and France, earlier finish to North Africa campaign, no Suez Crisis (or more favourable resolution, haven't decided which) means that the Entente Cordiale (or the Auld Alliance in Scotland) forms a key part of post war defence policy.
 
Sadly, there's little chance of getting a second Wessex in, but two SPG-55 illuminators would make a huge difference to the ship's capability.
Does that mean the SPG-55 was half the weight of Type 901? In my RN money no object essay Seaslug is stowed more compactly to double the number of missiles that the County (and 1960 Cruiser) can carry and an improved Super Seaslug with a new lighter Type 902 illuminator. It was so light that two could be mounted on top of the County's hangar, which allowed it to be extended and have the entrance at the back leading directly onto the helipad instead of at the side.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
HMS Prince Consort

Royal Navy line of battle ship converted 1859-60

Prince Consort was a ship intended to fight ironclads without being ironclad herself. After the launch of Gloire, the Admiralty decided to build a stopgap vessel capable of fighting ironclads.
It was understood that it would be necessary to ship guns able to penetrate armour, and the 68-lber was chosen as the piece to use. To reduce topweight, the ship (a threedecker line of battle ship in reserve, the Royal Albert) was razeed to make a two-decker and all the guns replaced with 68-lbers of matching weight.

The resultant ship carried the most potent broadside of any wooden liner in history. No fewer than thirty-five 68lber 95cwt were carried on each broadside, plus two pivot guns, and after much debate a furnace was installed for Martin's Shell as well. The theory was to lodge a 68-lber Martin Shell through the iron armour of an enemy ironclad and incinerate the backing.
 
Does that mean the SPG-55 was half the weight of Type 901?
I have no idea, but it at least seems plausible. That the USN managed two SPG-55 on a DLG hull is at least suggestive. I'd be wary of side-by-side illuminators though - it restricts your arcs of fire quite badly. Now, if I were forced to make a choice between a second SPG-55 or a Wessex, I would proceed to make extremely noncomittal noises whilst thinking of reasons to be elsewhere....

The Mark 10 would also make a double-ended County successor far more sensible.
 
As an Air Defence Destroyer, certainly, but the evolution of the Sea /Blue Slug > Proto Exocet > Excalibur missile
systems means that the RN refits are cruisers in all but name, especially when the nuclear warhead gives them a strategic
level role. The Port Class cruisers will be strongly based on the County Class.

Replacing the second turret and the Sea Slug with
a Terrier is considered with the Westralias, but the stronger ties with the UK (and by exension France) means that they'll probably
go with the Dart or a Mascura derivative.
 
I'm having a bit of trouble making a DD work, though
That's normal.
Springsharp was initially designed to model dreadnought-era battleships, and it has trouble to cope with fast light ships.
It's acceptable to relax some constraints (typically, the overall hull strength coefficient lower than 1 is OK for DDs).

I think it's been discussed on the navweaps forum a long time ago, but my memory may be a bit fuzzy.
 
That's normal.
Springsharp was initially designed to model dreadnought-era battleships, and it has trouble to cope with fast light ships.
It's acceptable to relax some constraints (typically, the overall hull strength coefficient lower than 1 is OK for DDs).

I think it's been discussed on the navweaps forum a long time ago, but my memory may be a bit fuzzy.

True, a DD can have a hull strength of 0.51 and get away with it.

Try Navalism and Westworld forums for many designs and lots of good advise...
 
Inspired by discussion of the Kongos fighting at Jutland in this thread.

Yari class Fast Battleship

Displacement: 48,350 t
Length: 262.3m
Beam: 31.8m
Draught: 9.8m
Armament: (1938 refit)
4x 2-41cm/45 3rd Year Type naval guns
10x 2-12.7cm/40 Type 89 naval guns
26x 3-Type 96 25mm AA Gun
14x 1-Type 96 25mm AA Gun


Ships in class:
Yari (1921-1949)
Yakushi (1922-1944)


The Yari class Fast Battleships of the Imperial Japanese navy started life as the second and third ships of the Royal Navy's Hood class of battlecruisers.

Early during the Great War, worried by the slim margins of capital ships compared to their German opponents, the Royal Navy had requested their Japanese allies send a force of ships to help maintain the blockade of the North Sea. Despite reservations, the Japanese eventually agreed, and dispatched their vaunted Kongo class Battlecrusiers, alongside an escort of cruisers and destroyers to join the Grand Fleet at Scapa Flow. The conditions they demanded in return was the construction of a state of the art Capital ship post war, alongside technology transfer similar to that which had accompanied the Kongos four years earlier. In addition any losses incurred where to be replaced either from British construction the IJN found acceptable or by funding the replacements to be built in Japanese yards.

Following the triumphant victory at Jutland, where the Japanese Battlecruiser Squadron proved instrumental in trapping the High Seas Fleet into a close quarters battle with the overwhelming superiority of the British Grand Fleet, the British governemnt was compelled to honour the terms of the agreement by which it had secured the aid of it's ally's ships.
During the battle Kirishima had suffered a withering hail of fire during the suicidal charge of the 1st scouting groups Battlecrusiers, as they attempted to prevent the Allied Battle Cruiser Fleet from closing the net. In addition to damage received earlier in the engagement, the Kirishima had suffered a total of thirty two hits and despite valiant efforts at damage control began to founder shortly after the battle. Though most of the crew were rescued the ship itelf rolled over and dissapeared beneath the waves, taking 180 men with her.

At the end of the war, the British government thus found itself in the position of owing their Japanese allies, two capital ships. Fortuitously they had a class of modern battlecruisers that had following Jutland been deemed as unsuitable. Though Hood itself had been already claimed by the Royal Navy, the remaining three hulls thogh in very early states were on the verge of being cancelled and broken up.
Seeing a way to kill two birds with one stone, the Admiralty offered to complete Anson and Howe with whatever modifications the IJN though necessary to accept them into service. The Japanese agreed, and the ships were completed in April 1921, and January 1922 respectively.

Renamed Yari (ex-Anson) and Yakushi (ex-Howe), the ships were finished upon very similar lines to Hood, incorporating as many lessons from the Battle of Jutland as possible. The main armament was changed to the 41cm/45 3rd Year Type guns also used on the IJN's new Nagato class battleships, and the secondary battery consisted of twelve 14cm/50 Year Type guns on deck mounted pedestals.
The fourth ship in the class, Rodney, was also completed to a modified Hood design, and accepted by the Royal Navy following pressure from senior Admiralty figures.

In the 1930's both Yari and Yakushi underwent several refits. The power plants on both ships were upgraded and restored to full working order, along with optimizations to the armour scheme. The funnels were trunked together, and a pagoda mast added, improving fire control and providing more deck space for greatly increased anti-aircraft firepower, replacing their secondary batteries with dual purpose 127mm dual mounts, and adding numerous 25mm cannon emplacements. After this reconstruction the IJN began referring to the Yari class as Fast Battleships in a similar vein to the surviving Kongo ships.


Both Yari and Yakushi took part in the attack on Pearl Harbour, serving as escorts for the Kido Butai. They spent much of the early war in this capacity, their high speed in strong anti-aircraft armament making them ideal companions for the fast carrier groups. The ships performed well successfully engaging enemy airgroups at both Midway and Truk, and devastating an attempt by USN cruisers to ambush IJN carriers during the Battle of Banda Sea.
It was fulfilling this role that lead them to a detained meeting during the Battle of the Andaman Sea in 1944, where defending the Second Carrier Division from a night attack by the British Pacific Fleet, they met their half sister the Royal Navy battlecruiser HMS Hood in combat.
HMS Hood accompanied by HMS Jellicoe, and HMS Duke of York (having been deprived of her own sister-consort by Tirpitz), fought a a brief but violent engagement that left Yari burning in several places, and Yakushi a floating hulk.
Yakushi was subsequently scuttled, and the IJN Second Carrier Division forced to retreat east of the straits of Malacca having also lost one of its carriers, and several escorts.

Yari was repaired, and quickly reassigned to the effort to defend the Philippine islands from the approaching allied assault. She fought in the Battle of Sandakan, narrowly escaping the air attacks that sank Kongo and Mutsu, and guarded convoys during the retreat from Luzon.
Shortly after this Yari's luck finally ran out, having been spotted by the submarine USS Shark traversing the Bashi channel, her position was relayed to the carriers of the nearby British Pacific Fleet. Barracudas from HMS Ark Royal and HMS Indomitable mounted several torpedo runs on the fleeing Battleship, scoring four hits. Crippled Yari barely managed to lose her pursuers in the dying light and limped into port at Taikao.
The naval station at Taikao did not have the facilities to repair Yari, even if the IJN could have mustered the resources to do so.

Yari was moored in the harbour, and used as an anti-aircraft battery. She suffered multiple hits from repeated USAAF bombing raids, but survived till the end of the war. Whereupon she fell into the hands of the Republic of China when they took repossession of Taiwan, and Taikao became Kaohsiung. The Chinese for several years considered trying to repair Yari, and recommission her into their own navy. But eventually decided the cost far outweighed the benefit, and towed her to the nearby breaking yards where this storied ship finally met her end.
 
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Inspired by discussion of the Kongos fighting at Jutland in this thread.

Yari class Fast Battleship

Displacement: 48,350 t
Length: 262.3m
Beam: 31.8m
Draught: 9.8m
Armament: (1938 refit)
4x 2-41cm/45 3rd Year Type naval guns
10x 2-12.7cm/40 Type 89 naval guns
26x 3-Type 96 25mm AA Gun
14x 1-Type 96 25mm AA Gun


Ships in class:
Yari (1921-1949)
Yakushi (1922-1944)


The Yari class Fast Battleships of the Imperial Japanese navy started life as the second and third ships of the Royal Navy's Hood class of battlecruisers.

Early during the Great War, worried by the slim margins of capital ships compared to their German opponents, the Royal Navy had requested their Japanese allies send a force of ships to help maintain the blockade of the North Sea. Despite reservations, the Japanese eventually agreed, and dispatched their vaunted Kongo class Battlecrusiers, alongside an escort of cruisers and destroyers to join the Grand Fleet at Scapa Flow. The conditions they demanded in return was the construction of a state of the art Capital ship post war, alongside technology transfer similar to that which had accompanied the Kongos four years earlier. In addition any losses incurred where to be replaced either from British construction the IJN found acceptable or by funding the replacements to be built in Japanese yards.

Following the triumphant victory at Jutland, where the Japanese Battlecruiser Squadron proved instrumental in trapping the High Seas Fleet into a close quarters battle with the overwhelming superiority of the British Grand Fleet, the British governemnt was compelled to honour the terms of the agreement by which it had secured the aid of it's ally's ships.
During the battle Kirishima had suffered a withering hail of fire during the suicidal charge of the 1st scouting groups Battlecrusiers, as they attempted to prevent the Allied Battle Cruiser Fleet from closing the net. In addition to damage received earlier in the engagement, the Kirishima had suffered a total of thirty two hits and despite valiant efforts at damage control began to founder shortly after the battle. Though most of the crew were rescued the ship itelf rolled over and dissapeared beneath the waves, taking 180 men with her.

At the end of the war, the British government thus found itself in the position of owing their Japanese allies, two capital ships. Fortuitously they had a class of modern battlecruisers that had following Jutland been deemed as unsuitable. Though Hood itself had been already claimed by the Royal Navy, the remaining three hulls thogh in very early states were on the verge of being cancelled and broken up.
Seeing a way to kill two birds with one stone, the Admiralty offered to complete Anson and Howe with whatever modifications the IJN though necessary to accept them into service. The Japanese agreed, and the ships were completed in April 1921, and January 1922 respectively.

Renamed Yari (ex-Anson) and Yakushi (ex-Howe), the ships were finished upon very similar lines to Hood, incorporating as many lessons from the Battle of Jutland as possible. The main armament was changed to the 41cm/45 3rd Year Type guns also used on the IJN's new Nagato class battleships, and the secondary battery consisted of twelve 14cm/50 Year Type guns on deck mounted pedestals.
The fourth ship in the class, Rodney, was also completed to a modified Hood design, and accepted by the Royal Navy following pressure from senior Admiralty figures.

In the 1930's both Yari and Yakushi underwent several refits. The power plants on both ships were upgraded and restored to full working order, along with optimizations to the armour scheme. The funnels were trunked together, and a pagoda mast added, improving fire control and providing more deck space for greatly increased anti-aircraft firepower, replacing their secondary batteries with dual purpose 127mm dual mounts, and adding numerous 25mm cannon emplacements. After this reconstruction the IJN began referring to the Yari class as Fast Battleships in a similar vein to the surviving Kongo ships.


Both Yari and Yakushi took part in the attack on Pearl Harbour, serving as escorts for the Kido Butai. They spent much of the early war in this capacity, their high speed in strong anti-aircraft armament making them ideal companions for the fast carrier groups. The ships performed well successfully engaging enemy airgroups at both Midway and Truk, and devastating an attempt by USN cruisers to ambush IJN carriers during the Battle of Banda Sea.
It was fulfilling this role that lead them to a detained meeting during the Battle of the Andaman Sea in 1944, where defending the Second Carrier Division from a night attack by the British Pacific Fleet, they met their half sister the Royal Navy battlecruiser HMS Hood in combat.
HMS Hood accompanied by HMS Jellicoe, and HMS Duke of York (having been deprived of her own sister-consort by Tirpitz), fought a a brief but violent engagement that left Yari burning in several places, and Yakushi a floating hulk.
Yakushi was subsequently scuttled, and the IJN Second Carrier Division forced to retreat east of the straits of Malacca having also lost one of its carriers, and several escorts.

Yari was repaired, and quickly reassigned to the effort to defend the Philippine islands from the approaching allied assault. She fought in the Battle of Sandakan, narrowly escaping the air attacks that sank Kongo and Mutsu, and guarded convoys during the retreat from Luzon.
Shortly after this Yari's luck finally ran out, having been spotted by the submarine USS Shark traversing the Bashi channel, her position was relayed to the carriers of the nearby British Pacific Fleet. Barracudas from HMS Ark Royal and HMS Indomitable mounted several torpedo runs on the fleeing Battleship, scoring four hits. Crippled Yari barely managed to lose her pursuers in the dying light and limped into port at Taikao.
The naval station at Taikao did not have the facilities to repair Yari, even if the IJN could have mustered the resources to do so.

Yari was moored in the harbour, and used as an anti-aircraft battery. She suffered multiple hits from repeated USAAF bombing raids, but survived till the end of the war. Whereupon she fell into the hands of the Republic of China when they took repossession of Taiwan, and Taikao became Kaohsiung. The Chinese for several years considered trying to repair Yari, and recommission her into their own navy. But eventually decided the cost far outweighed the benefit, and towed her to the nearby breaking yards where this storied ship finally met her end.
That was a nice story for these ships
 
Admiral-Class Aircraft Carrier

HMS Anson: Laid down November 9, 1916; conversion began May 30, 1918; launched February 29, 1920; commissioned February 1, 1921
HMS Howe: Laid down October 16, 1916; conversion began July 2, 1918; launched April 4, 1920; commissioned March 30, 1921

Length: 850 feet (WL), 885 feet (OA), 865 feet (flight deck)
Beam: 95 feet (WL), 108 feet (OA)
Draught: 31 feet 6 inches
Displacement: 36,000 tons (standard), 40,000 tons (deep load)
Armor: 5-7 inches (belt), 2 inches (machinery and magazines)
Armament: 6 x 2 QF 4-inch DP guns, 4 x 8 QF 2-pdr AA guns
Propulsion: 4 shaft Brown-Curtis geared steam turbines, 24 Yarrow boilers, 144,000 shp
Speed: 32 knots
Range: 7,500 nmi at at 14 knots
Aircraft capacity: 75 (maximum), 55-65 (typical)
Complement: 2,500-2,700

Laid down as the second and third Admiral-class battlecruisers, construction on HMS Anson and HMS Howe was suspended in March 1917 while work on HMS Hood continued. Eventually, forward-thinking minds in the Royal Navy suggested that they be converted into aircraft carriers, a suggestion that was followed through beginning in mid-1918. When they entered service in 1921, the Admiral-class were the largest aircraft carriers-and indeed the largest warships-in the world. During the interwar years, the Royal Navy used them to develop and refine carrier tactics and operations.

When World War II broke out in 1939, HMS Anson would have the honor of being the first aircraft carrier to sink a major warship when her Swordfish found and sank the German "pocket battleship" Admiral Graf Spee after the latter had tangled with two RN cruisers and one RNZN cruiser in the South Atlantic. In November 1940, Howe, together with HMS Illustrious, attacked the Regina Marina as it lied in port at Taranto, damaging the battleships Conte di Cavour and Giulo Cesare beyond repair along with three destroyers.

The Admiral-class's crowning achievement came in May 1941. In the Battle of the Denmark Strait, Anson and Howe's "half-sister" HMS Hood was sunk by the German battleship Bismarck. All Royal Navy forces in the area went on the hunt for Bismarck. Swordfish from HMS Victorious would find the German battleship hours after the battle, and one would score a crippling hit on her rudder while another scored a hit on her port propeller. Now crippled, Bismarck was immediately pounced on by Swordfish torpedo bombers and Skua dive bombers from
Anson and Howe. She would take a grand total of 12 torpedoes and nine armor-piercing bombs before going down with heavy loss of life. It would be the first time a battleship was sunk on the open ocean by aircraft alone. The battleships HMS King George V and HMS Rodney, whose crews expected to face Bismarck in a glorious surface battle, instead arrived just in time to witness her go down and rescue her surviving crew.

When Japan threatened Britain's colonies in the Far East, Howe was grouped with the battleship HMS Prince of Wales and battlecruiser HMS Repulse to form Force Z and sent east. When Force Z was set upon by land-based bombers near Malaya on the morning of December 10, Howe's Supermarine Seafires provided a tenacious defense, shooting down 44 bombers, though they could not prevent the Japanese from sinking Repulse and inflicting heavy damage on Howe and Prince of Wales. Both would spend the next four months undergoing repairs in Darwin.

After her brush with death near Malaya, Howe would spend the next two years making hit-and-run attacks on targets in the Far East. Meanwhile, Anson would spend 1942 and most of 1943 doing convoy escort duty in the Mediterranean. When the Regina Marina sortied to stop the Allied invasion of Sicily in July 1943, Anson was part of the RN force sent to stop them. In the subsequent Battle of the Tyrrhenian Sea, Anson's aircraft would contribute to the sinking of the battleships Littorio, Vittorio Veneto, and Caio Duilio along with three cruisers and five destroyers. In June 1944, she was deployed with HMS Audacious and HMS Victorious to sink the German battleship Tirpitz and her escorts as she deployed from Norway to stop the Normandy landings. Tirpitz would go down after sustaining 10 torpedoes and 13 bomb hits.

With the German and Italian navies neutralized, Anson would join Howe as part of the British Pacific Fleet. The BPF's most notable contribution to the Pacific Theater was in the Battle of the Ryukyus, where aircraft from Anson and Howe contributed to the sinking of the Japanese battleship Mutsu and damaged Yamato and Nagato.

After the end of hostilities, Anson and Howe returned to Britain. Now beginning to show their age, both were decommissioned in 1946. Anson would be opened to the public as a floating museum in Brighton, while Howe was given a permanent home in Barrow-in-Furness.
 
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Another Mers el Kebir post war design.

High Point Class Destroyer Escort series.


The Type 12C series of escorts for the Royal Canadian Navy has sometimes been called
the spiritual precursor to the Standard Hull Escort schemes used by many Commonwealth Navies.

Intitially conceived as a replacment for the locally built Weapon Class destroyers that formed
the basis of the RCN's air defence escorts after the Second world war, they followed a similar hull
plan to the St Laurent class series. The key differences were in armament, the initial St Laurent class
featured two twin 3 " turrets where the High Point featured a single power rammed 4.5" turret,
and sensor fit, which in the High Point's case was geared more to aircraft tracking.

While the St Laurence and Restigouche class were fitted with aircraft hangers, the High Point class,
and the succeeding Barbeau class were fitted with AA missiles. Due to their size, there was a limit
to their modernisation potential and their flexibility, and the projected Cabox class was cancelled in
favour of the type 41 destroyer, while the RAN continued to use the Westralia class until the early 80s,
resuting in a reversal of procurment prolicy in relation to Australia in that the Canadians adopted
the Standard Hull Destroyer first while the Australians started to replace the Frigates with the new
design scheme.
 
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