Algeria Vs. South Africa

Kidblast

After reading The Stranger by Camus, I was interested in Algeria. I got some books the other day, and decided to read about the history, specifically the War for Independence.

That got me thinking about the similarities of my native South Africa and Algeria. Both were countries with a well off European population and a poor native population. In both cases the percentage of the European population was about 15% of the total population. They were based on Republican ideals, yet one survived with its European population, and the other waged a bloody war that ended in the expulsion of the Europeans and their Arab allies.

What was so different that allowed one nation to settle its differences orderly and the other to wage a bitter war of attrition.

Some ideas that I had:

  • The Afrikaners had been in South Africa for a much longer time thus many did not have a home to go to, as opposed to the Pied Noirs who left for France.
  • South Africa was independent and thus able to implement a much harsher system of repression
  • The guerrillas in Algeria had more support from other countries, though this does seems a bit debatable
  • The French did not have a unified strategy

I'd like to hear other's thoughts on this topic as well.
 

maverick

Banned
The french had 'good' strategies, and technically, they won, but only through means like deportation, torture and ethnic cleansing.

Maybe if the french had been willing to negotiate with the arabs earlier, like in the 1930s or 1920s.
 

Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy

Banned
The pieds-noirs had their decisions coming down from outside Algeria. That's why the French left Algeria despite winning. The Afrikaners had their decisions coming down from within South Africa.

maverick said:
Maybe if the french had been willing to negotiate with the arabs earlier, like in the 1930s or 1920s.
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The Algerian Muslims were not given citizenship unless they accepted the French legal code over sharia, and most saw this as apostasy. I've heard of a compromise put forward in the '30s, the Blum-Viollette proposal, that would have allowed them to become French citizens while keeping sharia for family affairs, but the pieds-noirs defeated it. So that kind of depends on which French you're talking about.
 

Nicole

I think the crucial difference is that the pieds-noirs saw themselves as French more than Algerian, and saw Algeria as part of France, but the Afrikaners saw themselves as South African more than Dutch.
 

ljofa

I think that also South Africa didn't really have a united opposition - there are many distinct groups of people down there and it wasn't easy for them to coalesce and rebel.

The rest of the Western World (governments at least) generally supported the South African government owing to the supplies of mineral wealth and its strategic location. The French in Algeria had little global support.

Money from Arab oil and aid from the Soviet Union could be used to buy weapons to help the Algerians - both sources didn't exist for the South African opposition groups. Also, the focus of the Cold War was on Europe and the Mediterranean. It was only when the USSR and Cuba began arming Marxists in Angola and Mozambique did South Africa have to concern itself with the threat of armed rebellion.
 

Mark AH

This issue is a hard war because both counties had different rules, France and Britain. The war of independence in Algeria had a strange outcome, because France had won al the battles but lost the war. The problem with South Africa was that it was the result of forced agreements after the Boer wars. The difference was that South Africa had some strategically advances with the Cape and economical advances with diamonds. Those factors are lacked by Algeria.
 

Marius

I think the main difference is that white South Africans saw themselves as South Africans, and not as settlers. Europe was simply another place for them, not some homeland. A more accurate parallel can probably be drawn between Rhodesia and Algeria.
 

Burton K Wheeler

Moderator
Imajin said:
I think the crucial difference is that the pieds-noirs saw themselves as French more than Algerian, and saw Algeria as part of France, but the Afrikaners saw themselves as South African more than Dutch.
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Probably because Algeria was not a seperate territory, but a part of Metropolitan France.
 

Abdul Hadi Pasha

Banned
I think your first point is very important, but in addition, the Algerians had a common historical and religious identity around which to rally, whereas the blacks of S.A. were from very diverse groups. Also, the Whites had a greater technological advantage than did the French.

Kidblast said:
After reading The Stranger by Camus, I was interested in Algeria. I got some books the other day, and decided to read about the history, specifically the War for Independence.

That got me thinking about the similarities of my native South Africa and Algeria. Both were countries with a well off European population and a poor native population. In both cases the percentage of the European population was about 15% of the total population. They were based on Republican ideals, yet one survived with its European population, and the other waged a bloody war that ended in the expulsion of the Europeans and their Arab allies.

What was so different that allowed one nation to settle its differences orderly and the other to wage a bitter war of attrition.

Some ideas that I had:

  • The Afrikaners had been in South Africa for a much longer time thus many did not have a home to go to, as opposed to the Pied Noirs who left for France.
  • South Africa was independent and thus able to implement a much harsher system of repression
  • The guerrillas in Algeria had more support from other countries, though this does seems a bit debatable
  • The French did not have a unified strategy

I'd like to hear other's thoughts on this topic as well.
Click to expand...
 
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