Okay, after reading this thread, I'm wondering, is there any way would could get war happening over the Nazi invasion of Czechoslovakia, rather than over the Polish one. What effect would the war starting 5½ months earlier have on the outcome?
AHC WWII Starts in March
- Thread starter MattII
- Start date
nbcman
Donor
Will the UK / France give Poland a guarantee if the Poles participate in the attack on Czechoslovakia? The war may start with the UK, France and Czechoslovakia on one side and Germany, Poland and Hungary on the other. But the Nazis and Soviets still have strained relations so there is no trade agreement to allow the Germans to avoid resource shortages. Germany without the captured Czech weapons will try to defeat the Western powers-they will probably fail and slowly get strangled by the Allied blockade.
Poland would be unlikely to attack Cezchoslovakia in this case. The historical incentive to occupy the Teschen district was to keep it away from Germany. In this case rebuilding the old alliance with France is much more important as it holds the possibility of German defeat and the occupation of more 'Polish' territory. All that is worth more than Teschen.
This would probably go better for the Allies as the Germans don't have any Czech tech or weapons, which as a French General pointed out gave them enough equipment for over 40 divisions while Poland when it was conquered only gave the Germans some 20+ plus divisions worth of materials.
I mean full military equipment, lets face it their main battle tanks (working ones that could kill armor) was Czech. The Panzer 2 is not going to last against a Czech tank.
This is a industrial disaster since the Germans don't have the equipment advantages they gained from getting Czechoslovakia intact.
What about its predecessors? the 35t?
and the Panzer 3 in 1939 counts as a light tank with its puny cannon. Thats what the Panzer 4 was meant for.
Even worse, total production ran to 434. As for the Panzer III's gun, yes it was weak, but the weight of the Panzer III was 23 tonnes, firmly in medium-tank territory, compared with a meagre >10 tonnes for the Panzer 38(t). And nothing the Germans had short of the 88mm could bust a Matilda II anyway.
Alright lets not focus on tanks, I realize that was a weak point for Jerry, In fact Herr Guderian complains of many junior officers using French tank tactics during the battle of France.
Im talking more about the infantry equipment which they seized without a fight.
Im talking more about the infantry equipment which they seized without a fight.
Tanks and planes don't mean anything if you don't have fuel. Since this is before the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact the Soviets won't be providing Germany with anything, and at the time Romania was in the Allied camp. Similar problems exist with rubber and metals. Germany doesn't have the resources to run a war.
I recently actually just wrote a scenario regarding war over the Sudetenland. The western powers wouldn't have declared war over the Sudetenland so it's unlikely that they would do it now. The rump Czech state wouldn't have been able to defend itself at all, especially with the Slovaks demanding independence, all of the fortifications were taken away, a large amount of population was taken away, a pro-German Slovak state and a very weak president. The two provinces under their control wouldn;t be able to put up a fight.
Here is my thread in case it helps
Here is my thread in case it helps
My look at a prioritisation of the Kriegsmarine surface fleet - A Second Tirpitz - had the British and French declaring war over the March invasion of Czechoslovakia. Essentially, the increased size of the KM surface fleet increase tensions, but earlier provocations come before the RAF are willing to say they can hinder bombing raids on British cities, so Chamberlain sucks it up. Once that parity is achieved, Hitler breaking his word over Czechoslovakia is enough post Munich to get the British to declare war.
While I was more interested in the naval side of things, the impact of less preparation, less stuff nicked from the Czech factories, less money and materiel being used for the Heer and Luftwaffe and an earlier rearming UK all lead to a bad outcome for Germany.
Afraid I'm on the phone and so can't hyperlink, but the thread is at the below link if you're interested.
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=345691&highlight=Tirpitz
While I was more interested in the naval side of things, the impact of less preparation, less stuff nicked from the Czech factories, less money and materiel being used for the Heer and Luftwaffe and an earlier rearming UK all lead to a bad outcome for Germany.
Afraid I'm on the phone and so can't hyperlink, but the thread is at the below link if you're interested.
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=345691&highlight=Tirpitz
But would you be able to convince Chamberlain and Daladier (or Lebrun) to declare war after having already thrown the Czechs under the bus?
Plus, if war is declared, The British and French felt that it would take nearly one year to be able to be prepared to launch an offensive against Germany directly.
Even if an offensive was launched directly when the invasion of the Czecho-Slovakia happened, who to say that it wouldn't end like the Saar offensive as per OTL? It stopped (from what I've heard) because Poland had capitulated, and the Czechs would last much less time then the Poles.
I'm not saying that the Germans wouldn't be screwed if war was declared, but I don't see the Western armies Immediately going on the offense or even going on it before 1940 comes.
If that's the case, then with Chamberlain being... Chamberlain, what stops peace talks from being discussed? The French wouldn't give battle without Britain on there side.
Hitler had personally promised Chamberlain that the Sudetenland would be his last grab, That it wasn't proved that Hitler couldn't be negotiated with under any circumstances. Also, this in an AHC, which is basically asking people to come up with ideas how to make a premise work (if it's possible, not all of them are).