AHC: Post-colonial state takes form of neo-Roman Republic

How could a post colonial state (like any of the nations in the Americas) be so Classical-influenced that it takes the form of a neo-Roman Republic (or perhaps Empire)? Preferably, they should brand their nation as a new Roman Republic, but if not, they can "merely" have most government and military titles Latin and most government buildings in Greco-Roman style.

Could Latin be partially adopted as a vernacular? The purpose might be to differentiate this post colonial state from its motherland and to not pick a side among different indigenous tribes or internal settler groups.
 
Well, this is something i always enjoy arguing so here goes. I know there will be some disagreements, but:


That is basically America. If you draw in large, blurry strokes, we look a lot like the Romans. Several important customs are descended directly from the Romans, albeit being refined through Britain and mixed with many other cultures.

For one, we are a predominately christian nation. While it looks very different from two thousand years ago, most people's faith is Roman.

Our legal code is based on the British, which comes from Roman.

We are fans of classical architecture, just look at Washington DC.

While English is a Germanic language, an enormous chunk of it is Latin based (and that's not even counting what has been absorbed from French Italian and Spanish).


We, also, militarily are dominant (like the Romans, depending on how you look at it.).
 
Well, this is something i always enjoy arguing so here goes. I know there will be some disagreements, but:


That is basically America. If you draw in large, blurry strokes, we look a lot like the Romans. Several important customs are descended directly from the Romans, albeit being refined through Britain and mixed with many other cultures.

For one, we are a predominately christian nation. While it looks very different from two thousand years ago, most people's faith is Roman.

Our legal code is based on the British, which comes from Roman.

We are fans of classical architecture, just look at Washington DC.

While English is a Germanic language, an enormous chunk of it is Latin based (and that's not even counting what has been absorbed from French Italian and Spanish).


We, also, militarily are dominant (like the Romans, depending on how you look at it.).
Well if you use really broad analogies you can make those comparisons and probably a lot more. But those are just thought experiments. What I meant is a nation that intentionally imitates the Romans' institutions. (The OTL early US did, but this alternate nation should do so even more).
 
Ok, this is probably a little far-fetched, but you never know.

The Catholic Church gets involved in a colonization effort through trying to convert natives. They send a large number of missionaries to the New World to try to convert the natives. The missionary colonies end up adopting Church latin as their lingua franca, as do the natives who do convert.

Rome itself falls to non-Catholics. This could be due to a very powerful Protestant empire, French revolutionaries, whatever. The point is that the Pope needs to flee, and he decides to flee to one of the missionary colonies, which he dubs New Rome.

The Pope is followed by thousands of Catholic refugees who choose to build their new nation in Rome's image.

Although I see this as more likely to result in a monarchy imitating the Papal States than in an Republic or Empire...
 
The US is the easiest choice. Have some sort of tight confederation or loose federation for between the states, and create a system of government based on the Roman Republic, just with the Senators actually being elected rather than inheriting their positions, and setting limits on how long they can serve, so they don't serve for life.
 
Ok, this is probably a little far-fetched, but you never know.

The Catholic Church gets involved in a colonization effort through trying to convert natives. They send a large number of missionaries to the New World to try to convert the natives. The missionary colonies end up adopting Church latin as their lingua franca, as do the natives who do convert.

Rome itself falls to non-Catholics. This could be due to a very powerful Protestant empire, French revolutionaries, whatever. The point is that the Pope needs to flee, and he decides to flee to one of the missionary colonies, which he dubs New Rome.

The Pope is followed by thousands of Catholic refugees who choose to build their new nation in Rome's image.

Although I see this as more likely to result in a monarchy imitating the Papal States than in an Republic or Empire...

So, more or less Paraguay with a Pope. ;)
 
Maybe things have changed since I read legal history, but I was taught
that one of the things that distinguishes common law (which what the US
has and got from Britain) from civil law is that it did NOT come from
Roman law.

Right there with you. I'd say Nina'd, but I didn't even start writing my post when I your reply.

The U.S. actually took very little from the Romans, though most if not all people at the Constitutional Convention were aware of Rome to a great degree. The government described in the Constitution is basically the British government, as the Convention understood it, with more elections and less room for corruption.

The House of Representatives is basically the House of Commons without rotten boroughs and a more expansive franchise. Yes, the Speakership is different but that is not part of the written constitution and the idea that the Commons could bring down a government had literally one example in its defense. The Senate was designed as a cross between Lords (but elected) and the Privy Council (by providing for advice and consent on certain matters). Every plan that I am familiar with wanted two houses of Congress, even ones that had states all treated equally and ones that had both houses apportioned by population.

The presidency was the crown, but more constrained. Election instead of inheritance. Having to seek advice from the Senate instead instead of whoever the king wanted. I have read that many people (though not necessarily all of the educated ones) seemed to honestly believe that the royal governor's day to day control of a colony was pretty much what the king did in London. In other words, they knew of William III's or Charles I's monarchy rather than George III.
 
Harry Turtledove did it in his 'no h.sap in america' book.

An earlier American revolution before the Enlightenment might try it.

One problem is that we know the problems of the Roman Republic, and colonists arent going to be interested in an emperor over them.

Another problem is that the colonies were rather different from each other, and no unitary state, like the Roman one,would work.

Could they use labels like Consul, Quaestor, Lictor, Tribune, etc? Sure, but it would mostly be latinate labels on a very different structure, id think.
 
The Founding Fathers were very enamoured of the Ancient Roman Republic and in their own way at least were trying to in some form recreate it here in North America.

As to Latin becoming the primary language in the USA, that's not as far fetched as it sounds. The writings of the Ancient Greek and Roman philosophers was kind of the political mother's milk the Founders were raised on. At least the upper classes and even those of "the middling sort" learned to read and speak Latin and read the Romans such as Cicero, Cato, etc., in the original Latin. I would suggest a book called "Greeks and Romans Bearing Gifts," about the influence the Greek and Roman philosophers had on our Founding Fathers and their generation.

I have often wondered in The Constitution, because a number of them did have a fear of too concentrated and centralized power, why they vested executive power in a single person as President. Instead of one man elected to a set term of years with then no term limits, why didn't they go with two co-equal proconsuls elected to serve a term of one year as they had in the Roman Republic?
 
Well i don't believe that Rome and America can be compared like banana's and plantains, but a lot of undercurrents in our society are from the Romans. I must also point out that Rome as a city and rome as an empire (as well as the byzantines) look very different from one another, although they are technically part of the same thing. America and Rome are technically part of the same thing, although what we inherited are more echoes through British culture than any direct borrowing.

What i mean is, the histories of the three entities are interlinked and in some ways similar. When the Roman's entered Britain, they were confronted with technologically inferior tribes. They were Roman for only a small chunk of their history (albeit the one that formed the foundation for the modern state of Britain. The creation of London, and so on). Britain (as well as the Roman emprie) was transformed by an infusion of Germans (eventually ending in the technical end of Roman power). Despite the Roman's loosing their grip on the Isle, there was still a Romanesque culture. This was changed dramatically but not eradicated by the Anglo Saxons, Normans, etc. Now once Britain becomes a great power (by defeated other Roman/German descended states, France and Spain) they were free to expand Westward, as the roman's did. They spent roughly a century colonizing the east coast, which eventually broke away. They, like the Romans, ceded control rather than fight a difficult battle. Eventually the British Empire waned, and America had formed its own. We are an expansionist state that generally seeks to draw our subjects into our culture.

When i wrote my first post, i was a bit hurried, so i just made bullet points. But i really do believe we are a direct, if not very mutated descended of the Romans. They radiated outwards, creating the British on the fringes, who radiated outwards, and created America on the fringes. Also, it is important to note that there is a significant gap between the creation of the state and its global dominance. The thirteen colonies were "America" in the sense that they are part of the same entity that exists today, but are at the same time barely recognizable. All three are vastly diverse (although, at the same time, retain a degree of homogeneity). All three are christian, but also changed what it means to be Christian.

I also cannot stress enough how the English we speak today is a direct result of the Romans. While it is Germanic, there has been a massive infusion from French (and we are perhaps beginning to see a mixture with spanish.) which added to an already large number of words rooted in Latin.

I could go on and on. I'm hoping that someday i will. I hope you all, before picking this all apart, realize i'm making some broad generalizations. There are many other factors that went into the creation of these two states. But i think that historians in the distant future will link the three of us together, because the cores of our culture remain the same. Perhaps it is difficult to see because of the point we are in history. Once America's time is over, we will look the same. I also must say that i'm the type of person who, when they look at history, thinks nothing ever ends. If you turn on the news and see a story about the Tea parties anger at the IRS, it is because we have been fighting the same battle throughout our entire history, just manifested in different ways.

PS. one last thing i forgot to mention is genetics. The British are genetically only a tiny fraction "Roman." Less than ten percent of American's have British heritage. Far more of it is German
 
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