AHC: Franco-American "Special Relationship"

[Kung Fucious]

What it says on the tin.

In OTL, the United States and the United Kingdom, warmed up to each other fairly quickly after the Revolution (despite some hiccups along the way, including the War of 1812, and the half-assed attempts by some members of the British government to recognize the CSA during the Civil War), while Franco-American relations were fairly touch and go (until the fall of Napoleon III's government post Franco-Prussian war).

The challenge, then, is to use any POD/series of POD's to "flip" America's relationship with France and Britain. By that I mean France and America have, by the mid-20th century, a similar relationship/level of cooperation, while America and the UK have a cordial, even friendly, relationship, but one that is oftentimes fraught with disagreement.

 

[dissentcontinues]

Lafayette becomes and stays leader. The Committee of Public Safety, Jacobin Club stuff is marginalized. Since he was Washington's adopted son basically and he wouldn't go into the Reign of Terror stuff as much, France becomes a relatively stable republic. Later, America intervenes in a war where France is getting its ass kicked, and is reduced in geopolitical influence and becomes a de facto American puppet, but this is phrased as a "special relationship" to put a better spin on it.

 

[Booster Gold]

If the Entente loses the Great War badly enough, you could have Britain retreating into splendid isolation while Russia does the Soviet thing.

If Germany's New European Order clashes too much with America they could find themselves allies of convenience while Britain focuses on its empire.

EDIT - Oops, we're before 1900, aren't we? In which case you're going to have to screw France pretty badly in the 19th century in order to make them America's poodle (ironically enough). Even British people don't like how far the UK government is up America's arse, and that took 60 years of post-imperial decline plus two PMs (Churchill and Blair) with an almost pathological obsession with the special relationship. In the mid-20th century? I don't know if any country that was even remotely functioning would agree to such a thing at that point. You'd need an absolutely brutal France screw.

 

[Gaius Julius Magnus]

Maybe one way to start off could be American involvement in the French Revolution, though in order to do so you'd need a different series of Presidents than Washington and Adams when the French Revolution begins.

 

[Jbsmagic]

Couldn't siding the Napoleon (not necessarily sending troops but offering more support) be a good start? And not defaulting on our debt to the french would be a good place to begin I would think.

 

[Byzantion]

Maybe one way to start off could be American involvement in the French Revolution, though in order to do so you'd need a different series of Presidents than Washington and Adams when the French Revolution begins.

They felt quite uneasy about the developement of the events in France.

 

[Gaius Julius Magnus]

They felt quite uneasy about the developement of the events in France.

Which is why you would need a different set of Presidents as head of the U.S. when the French Revolution breaks out forAmerican involvement. Both Washington and Adams sought to stay out of it due to believing a war would be disastrous and were turned off by the violent turn the Revolution was taking.

 

[Kung Fucious]

If the Entente loses the Great War badly enough, you could have Britain retreating into splendid isolation while Russia does the Soviet thing.

If Germany's New European Order clashes too much with America they could find themselves allies of convenience while Britain focuses on its empire.

EDIT - Oops, we're before 1900, aren't we? In which case you're going to have to screw France pretty badly in the 19th century in order to make them America's poodle (ironically enough). Even British people don't like how far the UK government is up America's arse, and that took 60 years of post-imperial decline plus two PMs (Churchill and Blair) with an almost pathological obsession with the special relationship. In the mid-20th century? I don't know if any country that was even remotely functioning would agree to such a thing at that point. You'd need an absolutely brutal France screw.

Let me say that I didn't intend "special relationship" to mean "France is America's bitch", in the way that some people categorize the UK-American "special relationship".

What I meant was for the US and France to have opinions of one another the way OTL US and UK view each other, and have them be geostrategic partners with closely aligned foreign policy goals. This doesn't necessarily mean France needs to be "screwed" to make it fall under the influence of the US, merely that history needs to play out where the US and France see each other as the their No. 1 allies, respectively. Hell, you can "screw" the US if you'd like.

As for the setting, I only placed it in pre-1900 since the groundwork for the US/UK partnership was laid in the late 1800's, we don't necessarily need to go all the way back to the French Revolution in order to set things in motion. The Statue of Liberty was gifted to the US in 1886, during a high point of Franco-American sentiment.

 

[Gaius Julius Magnus]

Perhaps one other possibility is some form of continued French immigration to America, leading to French having more of an influence on shaping U.S culture.

 

[Matteo]

What it says on the tin.

In OTL, the United States and the United Kingdom, warmed up to each other fairly quickly after the Revolution (despite some hiccups along the way, including the War of 1812, and the half-assed attempts by some members of the British government to recognize the CSA during the Civil War), while Franco-American relations were fairly touch and go (until the fall of Napoleon III's government post Franco-Prussian war).

The challenge, then, is to use any POD/series of POD's to "flip" America's relationship with France and Britain. By that I mean France and America have, by the mid-20th century, a similar relationship/level of cooperation, while America and the UK have a cordial, even friendly, relationship, but one that is oftentimes fraught with disagreement.

One radical POD would be to have "United States of America" just be the english translation of the name of a french speaking country called "États-Unis d'Amérique."

You could get it by having the french settling the north american continent from the first years of the 16th century, occupying most of the coasts from Saint-Laurent to Florida and the Mississipi bay (even Texas or father south if the french later encroach on the spanish sphere) and spend far many settlers than the y did OTL. So basically, you could have by 1600 some 500.000 french north american settlers who would be able to prevent any english or dutch or swedish attempt to settle any place on the north american eastern coast.

I teased you for a real reason. The special relationship between the USA and the UK has a lot to do with the following facts :
- the US OTL are former british colony whose culture is anglo-saxon and language is english ;
- Britain was the main trade, naval and commercial power, which made her the natural middleman, investor and partent for the young US fast-growing economy.

You need something quite comparable with France if you want to have a special relationship.

I don't think a bigger french immigration to a WASP US would change anything. There were millions of germans who immigrated to the US and became americans. This did not bring any special relationship between the US and Germany.

 

[oshron]

i've put some loose thoughts into this for a project of my own, mainly that the US and France become close friends because they have a common enemy in the UK, but that's about it. i have read of some apparent similarities between French and American culture in that they actually have some "mirror universe twin" parallels, but i can't remember exactly what i'd read or where--i think it may have been here on AH.com in something about a love-hate relationship between Americans and Frenchmen

 

[danwild6]

If French Huguenots arrive in mass instead of in a trickle from 1690 onward I doubt they would have much difficulty preserving their language and culture. As time wore on the French government would repeal Anti-Protestant laws(which they did in OTL). When France intervenes in the ARW perhaps more successful cooperation between the American and French forces could lead to more inter-dependency. A successful operation against Halifax could rob the British of a base to raid French West Indian commerce and gain a friendly American port to protect French fishing rights along the Grand Banks. Since France had to trade back Caribbean gains to regain access to the Grand Banks maybe the early US can pick up a Caribbean island or two.

Lafayette tried to gain Royal support for an operation against Quebec to add a French speaking state to America as well.

 

[Kung Fucious]

Bump up the jam.

 

[Booster Gold]

Let me say that I didn't intend "special relationship" to mean "France is America's bitch", in the way that some people categorize the UK-American "special relationship".

What I meant was for the US and France to have opinions of one another the way OTL US and UK view each other, and have them be geostrategic partners with closely aligned foreign policy goals. This doesn't necessarily mean France needs to be "screwed" to make it fall under the influence of the US, merely that history needs to play out where the US and France see each other as the their No. 1 allies, respectively. Hell, you can "screw" the US if you'd like.

As for the setting, I only placed it in pre-1900 since the groundwork for the US/UK partnership was laid in the late 1800's, we don't necessarily need to go all the way back to the French Revolution in order to set things in motion. The Statue of Liberty was gifted to the US in 1886, during a high point of Franco-American sentiment.

Well in that case, I'll disagree with the people here who mention the French Revolution because America had precisely zero power protection ability at this time. She could no more assist in the French Revolution than the Masai in Kenya could.

A better bet would be larger French settlement in the areas that would come to be America resulting in greater cultural influence and thereby creating the air of cultural commonality that lies at the heart of the special relationship.

Memories fade and realpolitik trumps gratitude every time. You need more of a foundation than that.

 

[Kung Fucious]

Well in that case, I'll disagree with the people here who mention the French Revolution because America had precisely zero power protection ability at this time. She could no more assist in the French Revolution than the Masai in Kenya could.

A better bet would be larger French settlement in the areas that would come to be America resulting in greater cultural influence and thereby creating the air of cultural commonality that lies at the heart of the special relationship.

Memories fade and realpolitik trumps gratitude every time. You need more of a foundation than that.

Honestly, it'd probably be enough to butterfly away the Great Rapprochement.

 

[Umbric Man]

If the USA splits up in any form, the southern states below the Mason-Dixon Line were far more pro-French compared to the North, which were pro-British. Virginia did name Louisville in honor of the King, and certain southerners like Jefferson were ardent Francophiles.